T-Scorp Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Yes but the difference between my avatar and your avatar is my team can win without the guy in the picture your team cannot. Example, did you notice how the vikings running game disappeared when Moss got hurt last year and how the vikings couldn't win a game during that stretch. I think you do. NfL teams are not scared of their offense anymore. Without Moss this team is Dog Sh*t. 802997[/snapback] Randy missed 5 games last year in which the Vikings went 2-3. They beat the Titans 20-3 and the Lions 22-19. They lost to the Giants (annual event) 13-34, Indy 28-31, and Green Bay 31-34. With the exception on the Giants game the defense was the reason for the losses. Also, Randy was on the field when they lost games down the stretch, in 2004 and 2003!!! If you are going to spew forth crap at least get your facts straight, yes Randy will be missed, but as the Mariners and Rangers (baseball reference) found out you can actually improve without your "best playr" As far as TB winning without Grammatica...what was TB's record over the past year??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Randy missed 5 games last year in which the Vikings went 2-3. They beat the Titans 20-3 and the Lions 22-19. They lost to the Giants (annual event) 13-34, Indy 28-31, and Green Bay 31-34. With the exception on the Giants game the defense was the reason for the losses. Also, Randy was on the field when they lost games down the stretch, in 2004 and 2003!!! If you are going to spew forth crap at least get your facts straight, yes Randy will be missed, but as the Mariners and Rangers (baseball reference) found out you can actually improve without your "best playr" As far as TB winning without Grammatica...what was TB's record over the past year??? 803199[/snapback] They started off 5 - 1 then they went 3 - 7 to finish the year off. look at it how you want. Once Moss left do to injury the vikings could not run the ball. When Moss got back he was still injuried and not the same player as he was at the begining of the year. Teams knew this and took advantage. The Vikings coach would tell you this himself but he can barly speak and plus he is to busy scalping tickets to this weeks NBA playoff games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Here is good post I got from a different message board. It is actually written by a Packer Fan...I think. Anyways its a good read. Many a Packer fan (not me) will incorrectly conclude that the Vikings are dead in the water without Moss. It is easy to make this assumption based off of Moss's history of torching the Pack game in-game out, year in-year out. Viking fans too have fallen prey to the illusion of Moss's invaluableness because we have paid such close attention to Packer games and have seen Moss do his best stuff (remember 98?). Anyway, Ramstein Inc. has done a thorough analysis of the last four years and have concluded, just as Tice has, that their offense shouldn't miss a beat. Clearly Moss's most dominant years were his first three, when he had Carter and defenses didn't bottle him up. He has earned the right to be regarded as the most dominant receiver, based in large part from his exploitations of a weak NFC central...particularly in 1998-2000. However now consider this: 1) In his first 3 seasons, Moss scored 43 TDs and averaged 18.4 yd/catch. He had 30 receptions over 40 yards and 71 over 20 yards. He did this averaging just 75 receptions per year. Remember that in 98 he wasn't the starter all year. During this span the Vikings went to two NFC championships. In his last 4 (he missed five games) years, he has had 47 TDs and averaged 14.5 yd/catch. He had only 22 receptions over 40 yards and 71 over 20 despite averaging 87 receptions per year. During this span, they went to the playoffs just once. 2) His best individual year statistically (2003) was also a year in which the Vikes LOST more games in which he scored than won. In fact, Moss didn't score in four of the nine games the Vikes won but scored in six of the seven games they lost. 2003 was the year the Vikings lead the NFL in total offense yet Moss only exceeded 100 yards in 5 of the 16 games he played in. Moss had 31 more receptions than in any of his first 3 seasons but averaged 3 fewer yards/catch. This was the Randy Ratio.....result? Tons of opportunities...good numbers.....didn't help the team win 3) In the past four years, Moss has played in a total of 62 games. The Vikes were 27-35 during these games, which we know had more to do with their defense than offense. However, during this span, Moss has only had 2 more 100 yard games (22) than he has had less than 60 (20). In other words, he hits 100+ yards every 3rd game and gets less than 60 every 3rd game. Of the 27 wins, he scored TDs in 17 of those games. In their 35 losses, he scored in 18 games. 4) As mentioned, Moss has had a history of putting up big numbers against the Pack. Did you know that he didn't score against Detroit between 12/2001 - 12/2004? In 6 of his last 8 games against the Lions, Moss has been held out of the end zone. The Vikings were 7-1 in those games. 5) Last year, with 1/2 of their starting offensive line (including Kleinsasser) out and without a regular running back during Moss's five game injury, the Vikes averaged only 3 points less a game than when Moss (and others) were healthy. It was during his time out that the Vikes had two tough road games (Indy/GB) in a six day period and came up short by a FG. Without Moss they put up 31 & 28 points, proving without a doubt that Culpepper was the catalyst behind their offense. They beat Detroit/Tenn during this span and beat Jacksonville when Moss came back and played decoy for a quarter. 6) 9 of Moss's 13 TDs last year occurred within the opponents 20 yard line. Only twice all year did he score from Viking's territory. I believe the same applied in 2003. Essentially Moss has become a red zone receiver (a very good one), but Marcus Robinson (playing 1/2 the time of Moss) scored 8 TDs and 5 red zone himself; Burleson scored 6 from within the 20 yard line. While Moss missed some games, how many more times was he thrown to within the opponents 20 yard line than Burleson and Robinson combined? No doubt Plaxico Burress would grab double digit TD's in that offense and no doubt Tice wants to employ his TE's in the red zone more. 7) Moss's notorious unwillingness to not take the middle put the passing game at a disadvantage at times. With Moss as the hot read, Culpepper needed to first look sideline then mid-field. I don't doubt that he was handcuffed because of this a few years ago and now that they have opted to use the TE in the passing game (fat Wiggins had 700+ yards) as well as very good receiving backs, the Viking's offense will be much less inclined to stall. Moss's injury and Culpepper's maturation during the injury are evidence of this. 8) Perhaps most telling to me is that last year (as in years before) Moss scored only four times when the Vikings trailed during the season. He did not score a TD in the first quarter of any game they played last year. Burleson scored six TDs when behind and scored twice in the first quarter. Granted, defenses clearly choose to take him out of the game early...and they did. Moss's value may be in the pressure he took off others but I maintain that as a "game breaker" he needed to step up early and when behind. He can't anymore. In the final analysis I have concluded, as the Viking's brain trusts has that Moss's abilities are no longer the difference maker (for the Vikes) that they once were. It may be said he is poorly utilized but the reality is that teams have opted to take the home run away and make him beat them another way. This is not what you predicate an offense around and Culpepper has proven that Moss isn't needed in order for him to thrive. Looking at the raw data, it is clear that Moss has had some games where he blew apart defenses but wasn't a difference maker more times than not. The Vikes fully realize that they can't replace the deep threat but they can score with a wider variety of options; particularly running. With Robinson and Burleson (and Taylor) the Vikes still possess plenty of "stretchability" so don't expect too many in the box. In 2002 (Moss's lowest TD year) the Vikes scored 46 TDs (Moss had 7) while in 2003 (Moss's best year; 17 TDs) they scored 51 TDs. Last year they scored 50 TDs with Moss missing five games and lame for 1/3 the season. Gentleman the truth of the matter is that Culpepper is infinitely more important to this team's success than Moss and this team will create great offensive production...with or without Randy Moss. He no longer can stretch the field like he first did and the Vikes will be much less predictable and much better positioned to dictate the flow of the game with a 2x better defense and an offense predicated on winning....not scoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Again wishful thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Again wishful thinking. 803258[/snapback] You're a super genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Prior to TimD, I kind of dug the Bucs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 You're a super genius. 803298[/snapback] What is wrong with you people? I was joking to begin with and then I made a valid point. I told you I was kidding about the Dog sh*t thing. All I'm saying is everything is wishful thinking until the season starts and you see what the team is really all about. Yes the D looks good on paper right now but the NFL is all about schemes and some players only play good in certain schemes. So who knows if the players the vikings got on D this year are going to fit into the system they run. When losing Randy Moss you lose a player that opposing defensive cordinators have to change their gameplan around. When you have Randy Moss on the field "regardless of all these stats your throwing up", it makes it so much easier to run your offense. No one ever tries to bring the safety up to stop the run and your other wr's and te's and whoever else is going out for a pass has a much easier time getting open. More or less the underneath passing game. Bottomline it's a much simpler game for the offense when Randy Moss is lined up at wr. Stop denyng that and stop pretending you've seen this new defense step on the field and stop somebody yet. At this point it is all wishful thinking. I've enjoyed it guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedroz13 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Tim D, I just moved to the TB area and am considering actually cheering for them (except of course when they play MN).....please don't make me hate TB the way UglyTuna has made me hate NE. About the Vikings, the team lost games without him due to the defense, not so much because Moss was out. Not to mention, without Moss gone (not just out week to week), they have an entire off-season to build a new team sans Moss. Again, I don't expect dominance, but I am cautiously optimistic of MN's chances to get to the playoffs. I definitely can't say the same for the Bucs. Carolina and ATL seem much more poised to get to the playoffs than TB methinks. I'll be at some games cheering TB (I like Gruden and am a big fan of M. Clayton) however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 What is wrong with you people? I was joking to begin with and then I made a valid point. I told you I was kidding about the Dog sh*t thing. All I'm saying is everything is wishful thinking until the season starts and you see what the team is really all about. Yes the D looks good on paper right now but the NFL is all about schemes and some players only play good in certain schemes. So who knows if the players the vikings got on D this year are going to fit into the system they run. When losing Randy Moss you lose a player that opposing defensive cordinators have to change their gameplan around. When you have Randy Moss on the field "regardless of all these stats your throwing up", it makes it so much easier to run your offense. No one ever tries to bring the safety up to stop the run and your other wr's and te's and whoever else is going out for a pass has a much easier time getting open. More or less the underneath passing game. Bottomline it's a much simpler game for the offense when Randy Moss is lined up at wr. Stop denyng that and stop pretending you've seen this new defense step on the field and stop somebody yet.At this point it is all wishful thinking. I've enjoyed it guys. 803325[/snapback] TimD...see that was much more eloquent and made more sense than the Dog sh*t remark. Just throwing out stupid statements isn't going to fly, especially if you try and back it up by rattling off juvenile insults. THIS is a mature site! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaP'N GRuNGe Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 THIS is a mature site! 803462[/snapback] Yep. Well, except for in the Tailgate, and um, in the league forums and um well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopher Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I mean this with complete sensitivity. How do you expect to be a compeitive team when your coach can barly speak his first language. 801791[/snapback] As opposed to being able to type your only language.......? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 As opposed to being able to type your only language.......? 803533[/snapback] Very good Gopher. I missed the E in there. Someone should give this man a sticker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Very good Gopher. I missed the E in there. Someone should give this man a sticker. 803534[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexgaddis Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Yeah, well the Bucs suck.. your team is going to be terrible you suck Gruden is a chucky doll Griese is dogsh!t ...hey, I kind of like formulating arguments a la TimD... its easier this way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Ok when are the boards going pay and the fisherman cant use all there aliases and the newbies go away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBalata Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Ok when are the boards going pay and the fisherman cant use all there aliases and the newbies go away 803781[/snapback] Am I the only one that's noticed Waterman disappeared about the same time TimDoofus showed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Am I the only one that's noticed Waterman disappeared about the same time TimDoofus showed up? 803796[/snapback] Was Waterman a Bucs fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Was Waterman a Bucs fan? 803804[/snapback] no, from South Carolina. Was more of a Peyton hater but appeared to be closest to a Falcons fan, but that was light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Am I the only one that's noticed Waterman disappeared about the same time TimDoofus showed up? 803796[/snapback] What's up brother? Why you got to call me doofus? I've said nothing to your silly a$$ Billy. Ha Ha Ha Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Yeah, well the Bucs suck.. your team is going to be terrible you suck Gruden is a chucky doll Griese is dogsh!t ...hey, I kind of like formulating arguments a la TimD... its easier this way 803775[/snapback] Deep down you don't like me cause I hurt your feelings. And not just you, all of you. All the people that dislike me. People f*cked with me right when I joined. So I came with the jokes right back and now you don't like me. Whatever, I could care less about you or the F*cking viking. I'm sick of people f*cking with me :bawling: Just because I can out wit you all doesn't mean you should treat the way you do. :violin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Johnies Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Deep down you don't like me cause I hurt your feelings. And not just you, all of you. All the people that dislike me. People f*cked with me right when I joined. So I came with the jokes right back and now you don't like me. Whatever, I could care less about you or the F*cking viking. I'm sick of people f*cking with me :bawling: Just because I can out wit you all doesn't mean you should treat the way you do. :violin: 804197[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I will see your :violin: and bump you a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 TimD, are you a hockey fan? You seem like a typical hockey fan. I hope that strike thing gets over real soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duchess Jack Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 (edited) I am trying to get that gem he wrote as my sigline - but there was just too much crying and it is all too good to cut any one part out. Edited May 5, 2005 by Duchess Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimD Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 TimD, are you a hockey fan? You seem like a typical hockey fan. I hope that strike thing gets over real soon. 804253[/snapback] No Jimmy I'm not. I know more football than you could ever know. I bet all you know about football is the fly route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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