tonorator Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 tonorator pwnd the facts. Next, can you explain why we can't talk monkey, Mr. Darwin? it is a fact that we happen to live in an incredibly precise universe that just seems to be able to perfectly sustain us. not too hot, not too cold, everything we need to eat, chicks to hit on ... planet just the right distance from the sun ... move us a few inches off orbit and we dont exist. bodies sustained by the right level of gravity, brains and bodies capable and geared to worship, love, etc. etc. i see proof everyday, all around me. nice, neat species just like the bible told me so. it's also amazing that in a supposed span of 60 million years of existence, we humans only seemed to have woken up just a few thousand years ago. i mean, if you drew a line the length of 60 million and then highlighted the last 6,000, you would barely even see it. yet, it has only been in that time that recorded writing and intelligent thought seemed to show up. not only that, the earliest stuff recorded was pretty deep stuff. why is that? massive proof, right in front of you. instead of those facts, you cling to monkey and mutant bones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Az is a Scientologist? Disciples of Christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 it is a fact that we happen to live in an incredibly precise universe that just seems to be able to perfectly sustain us. not too hot, not too cold, everything we need to eat, chicks to hit on ... planet just the right distance from the sun ... move us a few inches off orbit and we dont exist. bodies sustained by the right level of gravity, brains and bodies capable and geared to worship, love, etc. etc. i see proof everyday, all around me. nice, neat species just like the bible told me so. it's also amazing that in a supposed span of 60 million years of existence, we humans only seemed to have woken up just a few thousand years ago. i mean, if you drew a line the length of 60 million and then highlighted the last 6,000, you would barely even see it. yet, it has only been in that time that recorded writing and intelligent thought seemed to show up. not only that, the earliest stuff recorded was pretty deep stuff. why is that? massive proof, right in front of you. instead of those facts, you cling to monkey and mutant bones. the bible was written at a time when humans werent very bright. hmmm, i cant explain this. must be a higher power doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 the bible was written at a time when humans weren't very bright. hmmm, i cant explain this. must be a higher power doing it. Some of the smartest people that we know of were born well before Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) Some of the smartest people that we know of were born well before Christ. And alot of the smartest people we've known couldn't publish their work until after their death because of fear from the Church. But again, I've got no problem with God....I've got a problem with religion. Mankind ruins God. Anyways, you think if these people back then could freely exchange ideas without fear of being excommunicated. What would we know now? The Church has put intelligence thought behind the curve by thousands of years at least. Edited May 20, 2009 by TimC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Some scientists. I figured that was implied. Obviously not every scientist is out to prove the non-existence of God. I've never met a scientist who is "out to prove the non-existence of God". it's possible they exist, and I don't doubt that many of them take some pleasure in pointing out facts that undermine what they perceive to be a foolish worldview. but I think in general their primary motives as scientists have nothing to do with religion. I've met plenty of scientists who don't believe in God. I've met plenty who do. I haven't met many of either type that dispute evolution, or that somehow think evolution is some lynchpin that will bring down religion. I think most scientists -- whether atheist, agnostic, christian, buddhist, muslim, whatever -- are logical enough to understand that science can never prove or disprove religion, as they deal with completely different topics. one tries to make sense of what we can observe, while the other aims at what is and always will be beyond that horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) And alot of the smartest people we've known couldn't publish their work until after their death because of fear from the Church. But again, I've got no problem with God....I've got a problem with religion. Mankind ruins God. Can't argue with that. Despite my beliefs I will be the first to tell you that I don't think a lot of the text in the bible was ever meant to be taken literally, rather it should be used as a guideline as to how to live your life in faith. And I have little doubt that there are a lot of things the church withholds from us to keep the Catholic religion in tact. Whether any of it disproves Jesus as the divine entity in any way remains to be seen & can only be speculated on. Yet, as stated before, none of that has affected my faith in the least. Edited May 20, 2009 by rajncajn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 IMO, there is a very very big difference between faith and religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 it is a fact that we happen to live in an incredibly precise universe that just seems to be able to perfectly sustain us. not too hot, not too cold, everything we need to eat, chicks to hit on ... planet just the right distance from the sun ... move us a few inches off orbit and we dont exist. bodies sustained by the right level of gravity, brains and bodies capable and geared to worship, love, etc. etc. i see proof everyday, all around me. nice, neat species just like the bible told me so. it's also amazing that in a supposed span of 60 million years of existence, we humans only seemed to have woken up just a few thousand years ago. i mean, if you drew a line the length of 60 million and then highlighted the last 6,000, you would barely even see it. yet, it has only been in that time that recorded writing and intelligent thought seemed to show up. not only that, the earliest stuff recorded was pretty deep stuff. why is that? massive proof, right in front of you. instead of those facts, you cling to monkey and mutant bones. Actually 99.9999999999% of the universe (AND THAT'S A LOW FIGURE) in incredibly deadly to us. How many planets are NOT at the right spot from their sun, compared to the number that we know are? Again, that number above is LOW. So...you really didn't say anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I've never met a scientist who is "out to prove the non-existence of God". it's possible they exist, and I don't doubt that many of them take some pleasure in pointing out facts that undermine what they perceive to be a foolish worldview. but I think in general their primary motives as scientists have nothing to do with religion. I've met plenty of scientists who don't believe in God. I've met plenty who do. I haven't met many of either type that dispute evolution, or that somehow think evolution is some lynchpin that will bring down religion. I think most scientists -- whether atheist, agnostic, christian, buddhist, muslim, whatever -- are logical enough to understand that science can never prove or disprove religion, as they deal with completely different topics. one tries to make sense of what we can observe, while the other aims at what is and always will be beyond that horizon. And that is more along the lines of what I am speaking of. You are taking what I posted literally & it wasn't really intended to be, my mistake in trying to be brief. The scientist I gave an example of was exactly what I was speaking of. All the time we are hearing stories of scientists doing some sort of research or making some discovery that would seemingly undermine teachings of the Bible or our religion. Whether that is the intended purpose or not really makes no difference to the point I was trying to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budlitebrad Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching, I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot, I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus, I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha, I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita, I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings, I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman, I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me Edited May 20, 2009 by budlitebrad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 arent scientists just trying to find a definitive answer to a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Beatings Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Actually 99.9999999999% of the universe (AND THAT'S A LOW FIGURE) in incredibly deadly to us. How many planets are NOT at the right spot from their sun, compared to the number that we know are? Again, that number above is LOW. So...you really didn't say anything. I think you kind of just proved his point there. If the nature of the universe is inherently hostile towards life, how did this perfect little pocket of paradise come about for us? For the record, I'm a Christian who believes in evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miner Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 As others have said, evolution and God do not have to be mutually exclusive. I highly recommend this book on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) And that is more along the lines of what I am speaking of. You are taking what I posted literally & it wasn't really intended to be, my mistake in trying to be brief. The scientist I gave an example of was exactly what I was speaking of. All the time we are hearing stories of scientists doing some sort of research or making some discovery that would seemingly undermine teachings of the Bible or our religion. Whether that is the intended purpose or not really makes no difference to the point I was trying to make. it's kind of important though, because when you say "scientists are out to prove God doesn't exist" it sounds sinister, and like if the facts point in a different direction they will somehow cover it up and ignore it. that sort of persecuted, us/them attitude toward science among many creationists is unfortunate and unfounded, IMO. in reality, I think the vast majority of scientists are simply out to find out how things happen and document it. it's interesting that a lot of this started with a bunch of very christian geologists in the 19th century who were looking around at all these rocks and came to the inescapable conclusion that, you know, the earth has clearly been around a lot longer than 6,000 years. I don't believe these discoveries caused any great crisis in their faith, and really why should it? people thought it would destroy faith if the world was round, so they fought that discovery tooth and nail. people thought it would destroy faith if the earth orbited the sun and not vice versa, so they fought that discovery tooth and nail. and so on it goes. here's a statement worth pondering: The Bible itself speaks to us of the origin of the universe and its make-up, not in order to provide us with a scientific treatise, but in order to state the correct relationships of man with God and with the universe. Sacred Scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God, and in order to teach this truth it expresses itself in the terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer". Edited May 20, 2009 by Azazello1313 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I think you kind of just proved his point there. If the nature of the universe is inherently hostile towards life, how did this perfect little pocket of paradise come about for us? I'm looking at my glass of water and wondering how they managed to make a cup that is the exact same shape and size as the water I was going to put in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I'm looking at my glass of water and wondering how they managed to make a cup that is the exact same shape and size as the water I was going to put in it. Deep thoughts by Jack Handy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimC Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I'm looking at my glass of water and wondering how they managed to make a cup that is the exact same shape and size as the water I was going to put in it. I blame Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameltosis Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching, I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot, I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus, I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha, I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita, I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings, I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman, I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me Yoko and me. The song is awesome but looses its edge when he brings her into his equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Flick Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I think you kind of just proved his point there. If the nature of the universe is inherently hostile towards life, how did this perfect little pocket of paradise come about for us? For the record, I'm a Christian who believes in evolution. I think it's simply a matter of odds. And there is more than one location that hit the temperature jackpot. And FWIW - I think the issue of the arguement is in fact the problem: each side argues as if it's mutually exclusive. Who's not to say that 1 God Day is 12 million People Years? The fact is - no one. That's what it is to be optimistically agnostic. This fossil could be from Day 5, as part of a 'dry run' for Day 6. Who really is to say? Did God need practice? Maybe he wanted it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avernus Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 it is a fact that we happen to live in an incredibly precise universe that just seems to be able to perfectly sustain us. not too hot, not too cold, everything we need to eat, chicks to hit on ... planet just the right distance from the sun ... move us a few inches off orbit and we dont exist. bodies sustained by the right level of gravity, brains and bodies capable and geared to worship, love, etc. etc. i see proof everyday, all around me. nice, neat species just like the bible told me so. it's also amazing that in a supposed span of 60 million years of existence, we humans only seemed to have woken up just a few thousand years ago. i mean, if you drew a line the length of 60 million and then highlighted the last 6,000, you would barely even see it. yet, it has only been in that time that recorded writing and intelligent thought seemed to show up. not only that, the earliest stuff recorded was pretty deep stuff. why is that? massive proof, right in front of you. instead of those facts, you cling to monkey and mutant bones. maybe we didn't "just" wake up....I'm always open to the possibility that the stuff that scientists claim about our past isn't necessarily true.... especially since one of the few things we have to go off is the Bible and very few people can even make sense of that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiegie Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I'm looking at my glass of water and wondering how they managed to make a cup that is the exact same shape and size as the water I was going to put in it. quit plagarizing my ideas: http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=654545 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 quit plagarizing my ideas: http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=654545 oh snap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westvirginia Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 quit plagarizing my ideas: http://forums.thehuddle.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=654545 So who's in favor of changing atomic's name to irip CEO? :raiseshand: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushwacked Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Scientists will do everything in their power to prove God is just a hoax. Now, that's just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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