Eagles sign Vick?

[whomper]

Not so much.

 

While many Cowboy fans were cheering/defending the signing of Pacman, I don't think I came across that way at all. In fact, I think I wrote that I am angry and disgusted by the signing, and that I don't understand it. How is that a kinder, gentler Swammi? I also wrote that Vick will truly need to display remorse for his actions before he is forgiven. Some people will never forgive him.

 

The other big difference is the Cowboys franchise has a history of signing/retaining high profile drug & prostitute users, criminals, and thugs in general (Irvin, Lett, Jones, Johnson, etc).....this is basically a first for the Eagles, which is why there is so much backlash locally. The Cowboys never seemed to learn their lesson. We'll see if the Eagles go 0-1 or 1-0 in their questionable-signings.

 

Ultimately, all the neigh-sayers about Jones were right....dude was a criminal that burned his 2nd and 3rd chance. We'll see if Vick does the same.

 

 

Anything short of utter disgust and non acceptance of the Vick signing by you reeks of hypocrisy to me. I am just sorry I couldnt find the post from you about how proud you are that the Eagles dont resort to signing thugs and that you would rather not better your team than do this sort of thing. That was followed by a stream of nut huggers for your conviction.

[MustOfBeenDrunk]

So if you own McNabb are you forced to add Vick ?

I think yes that is why i'm putting him on the trading block

[Bronco Billy]

I don't have a dog in this fight ( sorry... couldn't resist), but dang - seems like a lot of haters out there to me.

 

I for one will disagree with you BB. He organized dog-fighting. I guess I don't have the same hatred of this act that many of you seem to. And no - I'm not at all condoning it. I didn't like Vick before, but not because of the dog-fighting. Just didn't like him. Still don't. But I think y'all are waaay overboard with the condemnation.

 

That's fine. But I look at intent when I make judgment, and I'm trying to see where a guy who intentionally pitted dogs against each other to the death, intentionally tortured and executed dogs, intentionally used stolen family pets as training tools for his dogs, and who intentionally bankrolled the entire operation suddenly has a change of heart and decides that he no longer could possible derive enjoyment from all those actions as he had prior to getting caught.

 

That's different than a lot of actions committed by players, whose intent was not there despite some incredibly poor judgment (ie - Leonard Little) or whose intent was only to enhance their own pleasure through illegal actions like drug use. While I don't condone either of the latter two types of incidents, I, and I would guess a lot of other people, put them on a different plane than doing the deliberate despicable things Vick was doing for his enjoyment. The outcome might be more severe, but the player did not intend and take pleasure from the premeditated and calculated sheer wanton cruelty of the actions like Vick did, and then repeated the actions numerous times.

 

That's where the condemnation comes from. Judgmental? You bet. But I can sleep pretty well at night despite judging a guy like Vick the way I do.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Bronco Billy

[tonorator]

While I don't condone either of the latter two types of incidents, I, and I would guess a lot of other people, put them on a different plane than doing the deliberate despicable things Vick was doing for his enjoyment. The outcome might be more severe, but the player did not intend and take pleasure from the premeditated and calculated sheer wanton cruelty of the actions like Vick did, and then repeated the actions numerous times.

 

bingo.

[Bronco Billy]

I would expect nothing less from you.

 

I'm glad I didn't disappoint you. Seriously.

[Cunning Runt]

That's fine. But I look at intent when I make judgment, and I'm trying to see where a guy who intentionally pitted dogs against each other to the death, intentionally tortured and executed dogs, intentionally used stolen family pets as training tools for his dogs, and who intentionally bankrolled the enite operation suddenly has a change of heart and decides that he no longer could possible derive enjoyment from all those actions as he had prior to getting caught.

 

That's different than a lot of actions committed by players, whose intent was not there despite some incredibly poor judgment (ie - Leonard Little) or whose intent was only to enhance their own pleasure through illegal actions like drug use. While I don't condone either of the latter two types of incidents, I, and I would guess a lot of other people, put them on a different plane than doing the deliberate despicable things Vick was doing for his enjoyment. The outcome might be more severe, but the player did not intend and take pleasure from the premeditated and calculated sheer wanton cruelty of the actions like Vick did, and then repeated the actions numerous times.

 

That's where the condemnation comes from. Judgmental? You bet. But I can sleep pretty well at night despite judging a guy like Vick the way I do.

 

No problem. I get it. I do. But from my perspective, he's paid a worthy price and it's time to move on. I'm much more interested, if you can call it that ('cause I'm really not one way or the other), to let his future actions guide my judgement.

[Delicious_bass]

I would expect nothing less from you. All things considered, Vick has payed a harsh punishment for his crimes professionally, emotionally and financially. When is the public going to let it go already. Let the guy move on with his life. He does deserve that right? It's not like the guy is Pacman or Madoff!

let me ask you just this one question...

 

Had Vick not been caught and punished, do you think he'd still be doing the same thing today?

 

 

That's fine. But I look at intent when I make judgment, and I'm trying to see where a guy who intentionally pitted dogs against each other to the death, intentionally tortured and executed dogs, intentionally used stolen family pets as training tools for his dogs, and who intentionally bankrolled the entire operation suddenly has a change of heart and decides that he no longer could possible derive enjoyment from all those actions as he had prior to getting caught.

 

That's different than a lot of actions committed by players, whose intent was not there despite some incredibly poor judgment (ie - Leonard Little) or whose intent was only to enhance their own pleasure through illegal actions like drug use. While I don't condone either of the latter two types of incidents, I, and I would guess a lot of other people, put them on a different plane than doing the deliberate despicable things Vick was doing for his enjoyment. The outcome might be more severe, but the player did not intend and take pleasure from the premeditated and calculated sheer wanton cruelty of the actions like Vick did, and then repeated the actions numerous times.

 

That's where the condemnation comes from. Judgmental? You bet. But I can sleep pretty well at night despite judging a guy like Vick the way I do.

Very well said. Agreed 100%

[Cunning Runt]

let me ask you just this one question...

Had Vick not been caught and punished, do you think he'd still be doing the same thing today?

 

Doesn't matter. It's a moot point. He did get caught and he did get punished.

[Bronco Billy]

No problem. I get it. I do. But from my perspective, he's paid a worthy price and it's time to move on. I'm much more interested, if you can call it that ('cause I'm really not one way or the other), to let his future actions guide my judgement.

 

I respect that, CR. If we all thought alike, life would be pretty damned boring. If we all thought like me - well, I don't even want to consider that

[i_am_the_swammi]

Anything short of utter disgust and non acceptance of the Vick signing by you reeks of hypocrisy to me. I am just sorry I couldnt find the post from you about how proud you are that the Eagles dont resort to signing thugs and that you would rather not better your team than do this sort of thing. That was followed by a stream of nut huggers for your conviction.

 

I get it, Whomp. You'd rather center this debate on getting me to say I am a hypocrite, and stick it in my ear, rather than the issue at hand as to whether a franchise that has never signed a so-called "thug" should now be brandished for doing so?

 

OK...I am a hypocrite. When I was calling out the Cowboys for bringing in Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones, I should have put myself in the shoes of fans of the Cowboys. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and I have to explain it to my own children and tell them that the right thing to do is forgive people and give everyone a 2nd chance if they are truly remorseful, I can see the error of my ways.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, Vick still has to walk the walk. He won't be (and shouldn't be) forgiven until society feels he is truly remorseful and rehabilitated. That won't happen overnight, or in a matter of weeks....it will take some. Some will never forgive. I totally understand that. as I mentioned, as a dog owner, I too am disgusted by what he did. No was was more deserving of the time he spent in prison than Vick.

 

But I have been consistent in that I have opined in every prior Vick thread that I think the guy deserves a 2nd chance....I personally think the guy has paid a price....millions upon millions in lost wages and endorsements, two years in Leavenworth, embarrassment to himself and his family, immeasurable lost respect. He has no one to blame but his idiot self. Was it steep enough? That is not for me to decide....its why we have a justice system.

 

I never though that 2nd chance would be with the Eagles, and I am still very confused as to how to feel now that he wears a green jersey.

[Delicious_bass]

Doesn't matter. It's a moot point. He did get caught and he did get punished.

I disagree.

 

I am hearing a lot of people say stuff along the lines of "the guy served his time" and "he's paid a hefty price", etc. Seems like a lot of people are equating him being punished with him being sorry and/or him being changed. I dont. I think the only thing he's sorry about is that he got caught. I think if he had not been caught, "Bad Newz Kennels" would be alive and well today with him at the helm. I believe he'd be fighting, torturring and killing dogs today if he had his choice. Wanna know why I think that? Because he likes it. You dont get as deeply involved in stuff like that unless you have a strong taste for it. In order for him to do what he did as long as he did, he has to have a sick appetite for it. And I dont think anything gets rid of that appetite. Its a little like sex offenders and child molesters. They can go through all sorts of treatment and rehabilitation, but they'll never lose that taste for kids or whatever because that is what turns them on. That's the reason so many of those people are repeat offenders.

 

I believe Michael Vick is the kind of guy who gets off on torturring/killing dogs and would immediately go back to it if he could. That is why I think he's a scumbag POS.

[LayLow]

This isn't Vick's 2nd chance...he has proved to be a oil and vinegar MANY TIMES BEFORE

 

1. Ron Mexico incident

2. Water bottle incident

3. Picture of him smoking a blunt in a limo

4. Middle finger to the fans

 

etc etc etc

[TimC]

Delicious bass nailed it. Thug got caught and is now playing to the people since he knows the only way to make more than $8.00 an hour is to do so. He feels no sympathy other than the fact he was busted.

 

Like I needed another reason to despise the Eagles...

[Ursa Majoris]

I disagree.

 

I am hearing a lot of people say stuff along the lines of "the guy served his time" and "he's paid a hefty price", etc. Seems like a lot of people are equating him being punished with him being sorry and/or him being changed. I dont. I think the only thing he's sorry about is that he got caught. I think if he had not been caught, "Bad Newz Kennels" would be alive and well today with him at the helm. I believe he'd be fighting, torturring and killing dogs today if he had his choice. Wanna know why I think that? Because he likes it. You dont get as deeply involved in stuff like that unless you have a strong taste for it. In order for him to do what he did as long as he did, he has to have a sick appetite for it. And I dont think anything gets rid of that appetite. Its a little like sex offenders and child molesters. They can go through all sorts of treatment and rehabilitation, but they'll never lose that taste for kids or whatever because that is what turns them on. That's the reason so many of those people are repeat offenders.

 

I believe Michael Vick is the kind of guy who gets off on torturring/killing dogs and would immediately go back to it if he could. That is why I think he's a scumbag POS.

End of discussion. Nailed 100%.

[jaxfactor]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that this signing may be moot if he doesn't even make the team. It would help if i knew how much $ he signed for and how much of a signing bonus he got.

 

The Eagles have their QB. Kolb is not seriously hurt, and they have a competent 3rd stringer so they're set there.

 

They are now loaded at WR and have a very promising future at that position

 

Westy, McCoy, etc....I don't see them needing a RB either

 

So that's where my question comes in. Does he even make the team, or are they just giving him the chance to make the team just like any undrafted FA? Seems to me the organization could cut him and then say, "hey, at least we gave the guy a chance and he didn't cut the mustard".

[Cunning Runt]

End of discussion.

 

Why? 'Cause you say so?

[matt770]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that this signing may be moot if he doesn't even make the team. It would help if i knew how much $ he signed for and how much of a signing bonus he got.

 

The Eagles have their QB. Kolb is not seriously hurt, and they have a competent 3rd stringer so they're set there.

 

They are now loaded at WR and have a very promising future at that position

 

Westy, McCoy, etc....I don't see them needing a RB either

 

So that's where my question comes in. Does he even make the team, or are they just giving him the chance to make the team just like any undrafted FA? Seems to me the organization could cut him and then say, "hey, at least we gave the guy a chance and he didn't cut the mustard".

 

He'll make the team ahead of Kolb and Feely as the backup QB, at the very least, and I'm sure they have plans to utilize him in creative ways in the backfield with McNabb, DJax/Westy/McCoy. They wouldn't take this kind of s*itstorm if they didn't have some concrete plans to use him.

[gbpfan1231]

My guess is Philly gives this guy a few snaps per game and some "Vick" packages as the season goes on. I expect him to be at times a RB, WR and QB but certainly not a McNabb replacement. I actually think it's a good fit for the knucklehead. Man is Philly going to be fast and explosive on offense this year. And oh by the way. All these so called morally correct fans and members of the huddle that continue to criticize this guy for crimes he's done time for will all be cheering when he rattles off some exciting plays this year. There are at least 50 guys currently in the NFL right now that have less character than Vick.

 

No way in hell I will be cheering for him if he makes an exciting play. I will be disgusted by it and I don't think the other people in this forum that despise Vick will be cheering for him either.

 

I am sick of you and others who always bring up other people - who cares if there are 50 other people worse than him - Vick is still a POS - if there are 2 others worse or 100 worse does not change what he did and does not make him a saint. Name those other 50 and I will probably say they are crap also and should not deserve to play in the NFL. Either way Vick is Vick and what he did was way wrong and NO he is not remorseful for what he did he is only remorseful that he got caught.

[gbpfan1231]

Stay classy, buddy.

Why? Because Vick deserves to be treated better becuase he is remorseful and did his time? I am just speaking my mind and I think Vick is a deplorable human.

[godtomsatan]

* “It was a point in my life before I was even convicted or before the allegations even came out that I knew it was wrong and I felt it was wrong," Vick said. "Just when I was trying to turn the corner, it was too late. Everything happens for a reason. There’s a reason I was sent to Kansas, a reason I was convicted. I was conscious of that fact. To this day, I have to deal with that shame and embarrassment.”

 

* “We all used the excuse that it was part of our culture. I don’t think that is an excuse. I was abiding by that rule at the time. When I went to prison, I had plenty of time to think about what I did. Saw people’s reaction … Now I understand people care about their animals, their health, their welfare, the protections of their animals. Now I do.”

 

* “I was wrong for what I did. Everything that happened at that point in time was wrong. I can’t understand why I was involved to this day … I was a naive to a lot of things. If I can help more animals than I can hurt then I have contributed and I have done my part.”

 

* "I now know playing in the NFL is a privilege and not a right. I want to do whatever is necessary and be the best ambassador to the NFL and in the community."

[Cunning Runt]

* “It was a point in my life before I was even convicted or before the allegations even came out that I knew it was wrong and I felt it was wrong," Vick said. "Just when I was trying to turn the corner, it was too late. Everything happens for a reason. There’s a reason I was sent to Kansas, a reason I was convicted. I was conscious of that fact. To this day, I have to deal with that shame and embarrassment.”

 

* “We all used the excuse that it was part of our culture. I don’t think that is an excuse. I was abiding by that rule at the time. When I went to prison, I had plenty of time to think about what I did. Saw people’s reaction … Now I understand people care about their animals, their health, their welfare, the protections of their animals. Now I do.”

 

* “I was wrong for what I did. Everything that happened at that point in time was wrong. I can’t understand why I was involved to this day … I was a naive to a lot of things. If I can help more animals than I can hurt then I have contributed and I have done my part.”

 

* "I now know playing in the NFL is a privilege and not a right. I want to do whatever is necessary and be the best ambassador to the NFL and in the community."

 

As I responded to a post that seemed to reflect poorly on Vick for something he said, I'll say the same thing here to things he said that reflect positively.

 

Actions do speak louder than words, so this is meaningless, as was the negative previously posted. What he DOES will tell the tale.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Cunning Runt

[MikesVikes]

Whatever happened to those reports that the NFL has many players involved in dog fighting?

 

link

 

link

 

link

 

link

 

Nate Newton, Tyrone Wheatley, and LeShon Johnson have all had incidents with dog fighting. The NFL hides behind Michael Vick has it's sacrificial lamb in the situation. But how many others are (or hopefully that can now be past tense) involved in dog fighting? I would imagine that many are playing in the league right now under no scrutiny whatsoever.

 

"I would bet you," Tampa Bay cornerback Ronde Barber told me, "that every player in the NFL knows someone who has been to a dogfight." [from one of the articles linked above]

Does that mean that everyone knows Michael Vick? I don't think so.

Edited August 14, 2009 by MikesVikes

[Azazello1313]

I disagree.

 

I am hearing a lot of people say stuff along the lines of "the guy served his time" and "he's paid a hefty price", etc. Seems like a lot of people are equating him being punished with him being sorry and/or him being changed. I dont. I think the only thing he's sorry about is that he got caught. I think if he had not been caught, "Bad Newz Kennels" would be alive and well today with him at the helm. I believe he'd be fighting, torturring and killing dogs today if he had his choice. Wanna know why I think that? Because he likes it. You dont get as deeply involved in stuff like that unless you have a strong taste for it. In order for him to do what he did as long as he did, he has to have a sick appetite for it. And I dont think anything gets rid of that appetite. Its a little like sex offenders and child molesters. They can go through all sorts of treatment and rehabilitation, but they'll never lose that taste for kids or whatever because that is what turns them on. That's the reason so many of those people are repeat offenders.

 

I believe Michael Vick is the kind of guy who gets off on torturring/killing dogs and would immediately go back to it if he could. That is why I think he's a scumbag POS.

 

this is just dumb. he wouldn't be expressing remorse if he didn't get caught? gee, really? ya think?

 

of course he wouldn't be expressing remorse if he didn't get caught. that makes him the exact same as every other public figure who does bad things. football players, politicians, you name it. how many EVER have publicly confessed their sins BEFORE they got caught?

 

at the same time, that doesn't mean they're not genuinely remorseful....even if the bulk of the remorse comes from the fact that they paid a high price for getting caught. I've never seen anything to indicate that recitivism among dog fight fans is any higher than among recreational drug users and/or sellers, PED cheaters, wife beaters, adulterers, strip-club shooters, gamblers, drunk drivers, alcoholics....and yet, all of them are allowed back in the game. yeah, vick is a moron and a dirtbag. but there are a LOT of both playing in the NFL, so I don't see any point in singling him out for special treatment.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Azazello1313

[MTSuper7]

I don't condone or agree with anything Vick did that landed him in Jail. But will I catch hell on these boards if I actually feel like Vick has paid his penalty and deserves a second chance? Part of my feeling on this lies with Dungy's role, as I respect Dungy as a coach and a Christian. Dungy's main concern was helping Vick pick up the pieces and do so in an environment that is healthy for him (Philly's organization is rock solid). I highly doubt that means Dungy condones Vick's dogfighting ring.

[Ursa Majoris]

Why? 'Cause you say so?

That's a good enough reason.

 

DB laid it out like it really is, IMO. The remorse is only at being caught. No catch, he'd still be doing it, period.