darin3 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 not knocking the guy at all...just playing devil's advocate I guess. Who were the qb's in those games...backup, backup to the backup, backup, Matt Ryan ( not having a good yr) and a rookie? I was typing something fairly similar up but had to bug out of work... Was also mentioning the fact that a lot of those teams also have no running games and limited secondary options. At least the Giants have been running a bit more effectively and have guys like Randle, Harris and a decent TE in Tye. The Giants will move OBJ around like they did against Grimes and the Fins on MNF. And as he proved that night, all he needs is a few catches to make huge gains. Would I rather OBJ be playing a cupcake with crappy CBs? Sure, of course. But I'm not sweating it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gourdeau Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I can't believe this is even a discussion. He might arguably be the #1 ranked receiver next year. And the way RBs are getting injured a dime a dozen, I wouldn't look down on anyone who made him the #1 overall pick next year. In either situation, do you EVER consider benching a player of that caliber? This.. I go back to my earlier post.. why do people always assume the wr is the one who will lose the matchup...OBJ is on another planet, Norman has not faced a wr like him because there is Noone like him, not even Julio imo is on the same level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBears23 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If you have ODB then you have to start him. That being said, ODBs numbers have been reliant on those 50+ yard catches he has been getting from blown coverage. Will Norman shut ODB down completely? Probably not. But I don't think we'll see ODB with a blown coverage bomb. I play against ODB this week and I hope Norman smothers the hell outta him!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willswear3 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 not knocking the guy at all...just playing devil's advocate I guess. Who were the qb's in those games...backup, backup to the backup, backup, Matt Ryan ( not having a good yr) and a rookie? I get that, but I could counter with, poor QB play hasn't stopped Julio and Hopkins from being 1st and 4th in receiving yards respectively, and I don't think it's fair saying Dallas was a backup to the backup considering Romo played 3 full quarters before getting injured on the last play of the 3rd Q. And while Hasselback and Winston aren't pro-bowlers I don't think it is a coincidence that Hilton and Evans each got held to their lowest receiving totals of the year in the two games they played against Carolina. With that in mind, as I previously said I'd still be starting OBJ this week without hesitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 There's no doubt he struggles, but the Giants have to face reality here. When they force him the ball and game plan to give him touches, the rest of the team is better. I'm still sticking with the stat line I stated previously in this post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loaf Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I've got him and Antonio Brown this week. Nice week for this to happen. I've got to start them both though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Norman rarely gets tested. I also remember a lot of concern last year when OBJ was facing Sherman/SEA and OBJ did great. You can't worry here. You just gotta start OBJ and not 2nd guess it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeductiveNun Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I drafted him in the first round for a reason. It's playoff time and unless you're extremely deep at WR who else would you plug in? I know I don't have anyone with the upside of OBJ just wasting away on my bench. His floor is still probably higher than the ceilings of my bench players. Now all that being said, I am benching Eli this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkraft896 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 A great receiver will almost always outshine a great defensive back. They have the advantage of knowing where they are wanting to go whereas the d-back is trying to respond to the offensive players movements and react. The difference between guys like Odell and Antonio Brown is they are able to get open with their quickness and agility versus a guy like Megatron and Dez who use their size to get open more than speed. Therefore, defensive backs are able to be physical back and more easily react to where these guys are going versus trying to cover the aforementioned guys who are gonna dance, dance, dance and then make a quick move to get open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramhock Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thinking of sitting OBJ is silly & nothing else needs to be said. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rileyrott Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Thinking of sitting OBJ is silly & nothing else needs to be said. ^^This^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Then explain Brandin Cooks' 6/104/1 line two weeks ago. Heck he even went 7/79 against him Week 3. Josh Norman did not shadow Brandin Cooks on every play in both games. Here's what Cooks actually got when Norman was on him. Week 3: Brandin Cooks went 2-for-3 for 23 yards with the third attempt an interception by Norman. Week 13: Brandin Cooks caught one pass for 19 yards. I expect the Giants to draw up plays where Norman will not follow Beckham. For example, Beckham has lined up on the slot in 24% of his snaps whereas Norman has only lined up against the slot on 1% of snaps; so that's where receivers can get away from Norman. Edited December 17, 2015 by electricrelish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Josh Norman did not shadow Brandin Cooks on every play in both games. Here's what Cooks actually got when Norman was on him. Week 3: Brandin Cooks went 2-for-3 for 23 yards with the third attempt an interception by Norman. Week 13: Brandin Cooks caught one pass for 19 yards. I expect the Giants to draw up plays where Norman will not follow Beckham. For example, Beckham has lined up on the slot in 24% of his snaps whereas Norman has only lined up against the slot on 1% of snaps; so that's where receivers can get away from Norman. Curious as to where you found this data. Brent Grimes was likely to shadow OBJ on MNF and got torched. This seems like a bunch of BS over nothing. Guess we're just prepping for the off-season here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricrelish Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Curious as to where you found this data. Pro-Football-Reference.com tracks every single play for all games and provides this type of data; however, it requires a subscription. They do offer a free play-by-play account of each game but they don't tell you who was covering the player, but sometimes you can tell by who tackled the player, but it's not the complete info offered with their subscription; however, writers with subscriptions often extract the data they want and list it in their articles, such as Neil Greenberg's Dec 15 article "The Panthers’ Josh Norman is about to crush the Giants’ playoff dreams". Here's a play-by-play of the last Panthers vs. Saints game on Dec 6, 2015. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Pro-Football-Reference.com tracks every single play for all games and provides this type of data; however, it requires a subscription. They do offer a free play-by-play account of each game but they don't tell you who was covering the player, but sometimes you can tell by who tackled the player, but it's not the complete info offered with their subscription; however, writers with subscriptions often extract the data they want and list it in their articles, such as Neil Greenberg's Dec 15 article "The Panthers’ Josh Norman is about to crush the Giants’ playoff dreams". Here's a play-by-play of the last Panthers vs. Saints game on Dec 6, 2015. Very interesting. There's also blowout potential here, like last week. OBJ in garbage time could go for 100 yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the outlaw Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 The obvious answer to ALL of these type threads is, "if you bench him and he blows-up, and you lose because you benched him, you'll be kicking yourself for the next 8-months," OR, "if you start him and he gets shut down, and you lose because you had someone on your bench who scored enough to have given you the victory, you'll be kicking yourself for the next 8-months"... I don't know about most of you, but my philosophy is you dance with the one who brought you to the prom...a loss either way would sting, but I would be much more harsh on myself over the 8-months under the first circumstance, above, than I would be in the latter...just sayin'... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikesVikes Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Please form two lines. Line one for those starting OBJ and line two for those that are sitting him. I'd like to kick everyone in line two in the groin but you are already punishing yourself enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wpob Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I wish my fantasy team was remotely deep enough to even consider benching ODB!! There is never a reason to bench him. He is healthy, Manning looks for him on every play, and he makes almost all the difficult catches. If the ball is near him, he has a pretty good shot of getting a hand on it, and usually that is all he needs. Some players you write in pen every week as starters. ODB is one of them. I would only sit him due to weather. Like extreme rains, wind AND snow. And even then, I would still think of starting him. When players are on a roll, you star them. Five straight games over 100 yards and 8 total TDs. Go down with your stars. Playoffs is no time to get cute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) Look at it like this. At the end of the day, would you rather lose because OBJ had a bad game, which is out of your control, or because he had a big game on your bench? You would rightfully never stop kicking your own ass. Edited December 18, 2015 by Boy Named Suh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) QBs get scared at times and just assume their odds are better throwing away from certain CBs. I've never understood why a guy like Rodgers would never throw to Sherman's side unless it was a free play. I mean, I understand why, but none of the best CBs in the NFL are truly shut down. Manning really has nothing to lose and Beckham is great. I don't think Manning is going to chickenmanure out in giving Beckham targets. I'm starting Beckham with confidence....over Josh Brown and Woodhead. Edited December 18, 2015 by Bobby Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdko Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 For the person earlier saying Julio is better than OBJ, i'd like to agree, but they are two different kinds of receivers TBH. I'd put OBJ and Brown in one category of receiver, and Julio and Marshall in another comparatively speaking. Anyways, on topic, i'd probably start him over most other receivers or flex you probably have available in your lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilthorp Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 This is a classic example of a mutated thread. One poster called it the most ridiculous thread ever and then deleted it. People must be so bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misteramazing13 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I'll throw my two cents in here but its pretty much the same as everyone else. You have to start ODB if you have him, no ifs ands or buts. However, Norman is to DBs as ODB is to WRs. You know Norman is going to show up for this game, it depends on Odell. I can't remember what game it was this year but ODB was getting played hard by the DB and was actually being a cry baby about it, complaining about no calls when it was good denese and what not. We shall see Sunday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 i wouldnt play obj vs norman.. he doesnt match up well with norman.. julio can out power him because hes that much better thats why he got 9 for 90 geez I wish you were my opponent this week in the playoffs. But nooooo... my opponent has OBJ and like everyone else who owns him, he will be happily starting him. All ti takes is a single play to put OBJ on top. Not even Norman is *that* invincible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boy Named Suh Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 This is a classic example of a mutated thread. One poster called it the most ridiculous thread ever and then deleted it. People must be so bored. Yeah, that guy must've felt bad for slamming someone else's thread. May have felt hypocritical after calling out other people for leaving comments like that. It is a silly thread though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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