darin3 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 (edited) That was done on a stone tablet, no? near that burning bush I heard about? 756455[/snapback] I'm actually in a league that's still 100% NON-online. Well, we communicate via email, but we don't host a league website. We calculate our own scores. It's actually pretty fun, opening up ESPN.com and adding your scores up on Sunday night after a day full of football fun. Most in the guys in my league are "older", and have run this league for over 15 years. It started with 4 guys in some bar in South Dakota that were arguing about who would score more TDs in a game... Leroy Hoard or Ickey Woods or something like that. Anyways, it has obviously grown into something much bigger than this. Some of the guys are just computer illiterate, but mostly, it provides us with the opportunity for friendly interaction. You have to submit your lineup to your opponent before kickoff on Sunday, which usually means you write a few blurbs about how your family's doing, what your travel plans are for the year, etc. But yeah, this whole fantasy sports regulation thing is a bunch of BS and I can nearly guarantee nothing will be affected. Edit: Wouldn't ya know it... the participates in non-online fantasy football. Edited March 29, 2005 by darin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Swerski Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Quick question: other than the Huddle MVP challenge, how would such a licensing fee effect this website? 756431[/snapback] It wouldn't, but it WOULD affect MFL, Fanball, ESPN, CBS Sportsline, etc. I'm not going back to the days of setting up a web site for my league and calculating stats by hand. It's too much hassle and I have more important things to do with my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptonite Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 1993 to 1998, everything was done through the USA today newspaper...would have no problem going back to the "stone-age." I can appreciate both sides of the argument...but at the end of the day, if the huddle fee goes up, I will ante-up...but if the cost to play goes up (yahoo, CBS, etc) forget it...back to the newspaper. DMD, whatever you guys need, just ask. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kryptonite Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 And another thing...what about the kids...seriously, I know of so many who play fantasy sports, have a blast, have fun, root for their "heroes" and now they are going to have to pay...that just stinks...keep the free sites free.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Cid Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor..... 756510[/snapback] Shhh...he's on a roll... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Notable is that while the MLBAM claims to license 12 companies, and some for the lesser fee, there are those in the legal community who think the low fee is set merely for one year to set a precendent to show other companies recongnizing their right to license. Then after a year they can deny licenses to all but the big 4 and send cease and desist letters to everyone else. Most sites are not going to win a war of throwing money into court against the big boys. So far as it effecting The Huddle, probably not directly other than the MVP Challenge since we are effectively a "news agency" of information, advice and opinion. But it would immediately affect every league management site, contest and the like. And once they have control over those elements, who is to say they do not extend their power to other avenues. It is all about the money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddy Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor..... 756510[/snapback] Them bastages bombed Pearl Harbor too?!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Notable is that while the MLBAM claims to license 12 companies, and some for the lesser fee, there are those in the legal community who think the low fee is set merely for one year to set a precendent to show other companies recongnizing their right to license. Then after a year they can deny licenses to all but the big 4 and send cease and desist letters to everyone else. Most sites are not going to win a war of throwing money into court against the big boys. So far as it effecting The Huddle, probably not directly other than the MVP Challenge since we are effectively a "news agency" of information, advice and opinion. But it would immediately affect every league management site, contest and the like. And once they have control over those elements, who is to say they do not extend their power to other avenues. It is all about the money... 756545[/snapback] Once they have stuck it to game providers, there will be less people playing because the cost will be too high. The risk/reward we all enjoy now playing fantasy football will be blown out of the water. Many of us would lose interest being the shrewd gamblers we are. It's just the typical course of things my freinds. This underground secret society o' of many years ago is now a national phenomenom. And people are going to stick their hands out. The NFL did not invent fantasy sports. Until recently the NFL has tried to pretend fantasy football does not exist. It is in LARGE part fantasy football that has catapulted the NFL into the golden limelight they now share with no tother sport in America. The popularity of fantasy football has driven the NFL to it's current position. It is fantasy football that has fed millions if not billions into NFL Sunday Ticket. The golden goose will be raped often and mightily by the powers that be. Hang onto your eggs boys! If they pull this off which I still have serious doubts they will, I will lose that tiny shred of hope I had left for humanity as we know it. Using the NFL's logic, fantasy football as a whole should file a suit to collect commission for all the money the game has funneled into the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 If this does go through, I am one to also believe it will affect the overall intake of the NFL as a whole negatively. Why would I care about R. Moss without fantasy football? Or Peyton, or J. Jones, or anyone other than a Lion for that matter? I do know the paper and pen can be done, but with the amount of hassle involved I'm going to assume quite a few will quit altogether, and it would quite possibly prevent any new leagues from starting up. So what money will this really generate? None, if we all do it by pen and paper, and maybe alot less if fans choose to revolt and quit buying spamshirts, hats, anything associated with the greediness. They get a ton of revenue off the fans and tv contracts, nothing liking biting the hand that feeds ya. Before I ever played ff I would watch a couple games, the Lions and whatever great matchup there happened to be on. Then I'd go out do whatever and not give football another thought. The amount of interest in the sport would most undoubtably take a nose dive of some extent, to what amount I don't know. In the end, the major sports will find out. Where does it stop? OK, you payed and played at such and such "liscensed site" and it shows you won $500, now we, the IRS, want our share of your income. Look at CBS, it's already $150, what will it be after? To say I'm disgusted is an understatement by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clubfoothead Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 Very long story but bottom line it is all about lawyers and money and nothing about fans or the products you can buy. 755754[/snapback] :tud: I may ask you guys to write a letter to the NFLPA or even congress at some point if it helps the fantasy football marketplace avoid being stripped of options and making only the biggest 4 companies able to provide fantasy sports. 755754[/snapback] I'm definitely in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 how do you guys feel about turdell bowens this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicCEO Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I smell a pirate industry forming. And, I'm sure there are 1000 guys just like me who would gladly maintain a freeware league management software even if it was illegal. Open source, baby. Arrrrrghhh, matey. Every time the corporate lawyers rear their ugly head, another pirate is born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rattsass Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 I smell a pirate industry forming. And, I'm sure there are 1000 guys just like me who would gladly maintain a freeware league management software even if it was illegal. Open source, baby. Arrrrrghhh, matey. Every time the corporate lawyers rear their ugly head, another pirate is born. 756694[/snapback] This is true. Circumventing the system has become a national pastime. Anarchy for everybody!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 anarchy. I get get on board with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 (edited) Methinks you are the one being Naive, skins. There are lots of people that play FF, and many of them only play for free. Then there are many that will only play for a minimal investment. Sure, there are rich lawyer types (dig...dig...) that will pay to play because they like it and can, but I would suspect that if the price to participate were to dramatically increase that participation in fantasy sports would suffer a hugh dropoff. I would think that these folks would take the time to do some study on the impact of this, so perhaps I am way off base, but that doesn't sound like the case here. Remember...if DMD and WW get hit with some hugh fee, in the end it will be you and I that foot the bill, not them. 756383[/snapback] My saying Swerski was naive was not because I think he or anyone else will pay exorbitant fees. I was saying he was naive because this will cause almost noone to stop watching the NFL. We cant stop. And I think this is bad and should be fought. The example I gave was one of how wrong this is. Sadly, it happens all the time in different industries. I dont think the NFLPA would care if there was a 50% or 75% dropoff in fantasy play if everyone left paid $10-20 and they generated $50 million in licensing fees. Cold hard cash rules the day. Edited March 30, 2005 by skins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Soup Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 What the MLBAM hope to do is bleed CDM dry with fees and court expenses in order to force a licensing deal settlement on them. And by example, show everyone else what can happen to them if they do not play ball. Once a licensing scheme is in place the legalities of the matter will become secondary because the terms of the relationships will be governed by the contracts and licensing agreements. This happens all of the time with intellectual property. Large companies with vast resources lean on, intimidate and outspend smaller competitors or adversaries in order to force settlement arrangements which are stronger and more beneficial than their original legal rights. 755888[/snapback] So it sounds to me like money ends up winning, no matter who is right. As long as you can outlast the other guy. Sounds like justice to me. The names of the players and their use in commercial exploitation fall under state name and likeness/right of publicity statutes. That is the players association legal position. And they are trying to say that using the rosters of the teams, and the names, and any other informatio they can lay claim to, should be licensed through them. They are trying to set a precedent that they should control this information and intellectual property and once set, it will be difficult to disprove.I think yer naive. Are you suggesting that any of us will stop watching football and playing fantasy football? Those lawyers arent idiots. They know you better than you know yerself. 756057[/snapback] If you're = yer and yourself = yerself...then why doesn't you = ye? DMD, whatever you guys need, just ask. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor..... 756510[/snapback] Me too, DMD. I'll write a bunch of letters to whomever needs to get them. And of course, it was just the beginning when those Krauts bombed Pearl Harbor,...we chased them all the way back across the Mississippi and in to the hills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 ok, who's got the picture of "skylive inputting his leages lineups"?? 756432[/snapback] Commissioner skylive inputs his league's lineups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godtomsatan Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 http://www.xmlteam.com/statsology/index.php?item=122 http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3763 A couple of articles I found on the present situation concerning MLBAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brentastic Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 You got it. What these idiot lawyers don't realize is that the popularity of fantasy sports is already bringing in tons of money into their respective leagues. Alienate the fans and all of the licensing revenue in the world will not be worth the loss of fan support they'll experience. 755993[/snapback] I agree! Dumasses!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Until recently the NFL has tried to pretend fantasy football does not exist. 756580[/snapback] Still some parts do, as in Shanahan or Tice for instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furd Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Why am I not surprised that lawyers are being blamed for this BS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I was thinking the same thing. Our economy is better than other industrialized nations because we have less regulations to business owners and lower taxes than our Western European and Asisian counterparts. This encourages more small businesses to get involved and compete with the big boys. The smaller guy must create value in one of two ways: lower costs or a superior product. It's up to us consumers to decide if we want to support the little guy. These type of Royalty fees remind me of some kind of regulatory fee that you'd find in Germany or France. If the NFLPA gets there way we're gonna see an oligopoly by a few fantasy providers that will be pushing their prices higher and higher each season. 756389[/snapback] It's ironic, but there's the answer, right there. If the NFL and MLB stick it to American FF owners, the boards will appear in places where the new site owners will just tell the NFL, CBS, Fox and all the rest of the greedy scumbags to take a running f*ck. It's a trivial matter to set servers up in locations where American licensing law means nothing at all. The Europeans, the Asians and the South Americans won't lift a finger to run down sites running FF games, they'll just fall over laughing and rake it in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMD Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Their longterm goal of creating only a handful of legal sites will be especially harmful to league management sites. You would, if they get their way, HAVE to use one of the big boys software (at their price which seems to raise without competition) and thereby not only kill the smaller shops like MFL, but also kill off most all innovation in the area. The smaller shops are all ran by passionate, dedicated people who would do anything to satisfy their customers and constantly improve their products. The big shops? Try using a never ending line of employees/interns to maintain whatever they have. Hopefully it never gets that bad. But they'll have to be stopped or it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 I could just imagine their server loads come Sunday,,,, I see nothing but problems with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Majoris Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 You would, if they get their way, HAVE to use one of the big boys software 757048[/snapback] Nope. You could use a foreign based server, running software purchased (or pirated) from people like MFL, or written from scratch. And there's diddly the NFL could do about it. That said, the majority of those that didn't go back to pen and paper or spreadsheet would do the sheep thing and pay the inflated price at CBS or whoever. Personally, I would rather abandon FF altogether than be a victim of extortion. Sunday afternoons in the future might contain football, and they might not, but they'd for sure be different from the religious rite they are for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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