TimC Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 I agree with Polk. See, this is what happens when you unlock the basement and let them roam free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 You have the right idea about the counseling, Square. Not going to counseling at this point should be a deal breaker, IMO. He/she will help facilitate the conversations which could get heated at times.* I don't love many self help books for times of extreme stress, but I am going to recommend John Gottman's Why Marriages Succeed or Fail. This is a by-the-numbers look at how relationships dissolve toward divorce and what you can do to help get them on the right track. I think it's stronger for showing why marriages fail than it is for solutions, but understanding the downslide is almost as important as the tools to making it better. See link below if interested: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marriages-Succee...9936&sr=8-6 Most of all, I am very sorry to hear of the difficuties you are going through right now. There is a lot of good advice and interesting discussion here. I recommend listening to her as best as possible without reacting in the moment and hopefully, in return, she'll listen to you. Rarely is the situation so simple that it can be hashed out in a day or two. *Disclaimer: I am a Marriage and Family Therapist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackass Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 You have the right idea about the counseling, Square. Not going to counseling at this point should be a deal breaker, IMO. He/she will help facilitate the conversations which could get heated at times.* I don't love many self help books for times of extreme stress, but I am going to recommend John Gottman's Why Marriages Succeed or Fail. This is a by-the-numbers look at how relationships dissolve toward divorce and what you can do to help get them on the right track. I think it's stronger for showing why marriages fail than it is for solutions, but understanding the downslide is almost as important as the tools to making it better. See link below if interested: http://www.amazon.com/Why-Marriages-Succee...9936&sr=8-6 Most of all, I am very sorry to hear of the difficuties you are going through right now. There is a lot of good advice and interesting discussion here. I recommend listening to her as best as possible without reacting in the moment and hopefully, in return, she'll listen to you. Rarely is the situation so simple that it can be hashed out in a day or two. *Disclaimer: I am a Marriage and Family Therapist. If you had read this book, you never would have been in this situation to begin with... http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-How-Avoid-T...l/dp/0595096182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbimm Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Heh. I like your style Polks. We didn't say a word from Friday morning until around 3pm today. So far it looks alright though. Still treading lightly. She has at least said she would try to work things out. It wasn't the most energetic statement she has ever said but I'll take what I can get at this point. She is fighting me on the counseling but I don't think it's negotiable. Doh, she is back from the store. Did you get a chance to order that movie yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Did you get a chance to order that movie yet? Dickman & Throbbin you can borrow mine "Thanks for warmin her up Throbbin" Classic Holmes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrograde assault Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 I agree with Polk. See, this is what happens when you unlock the basement and let them roam free. I'm going to hell, but thats funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 what's going on square? how are you holding up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 what's going on square? how are you holding up? Meh? I'm ok. Things are getting back to a little bit of normalcy. She's not overly distant but it still doesn't feel right and probably won't for awhile. She has gotten back into jogging so basically once I get home at 5:30 and we eat, play with the kid for 45mins to an hour (she goes down at around 7-7:15) than my wife changes clothes and goes and runs 3-5 miles. She wants to do a half marathon with a friend (she ran track in HS). So she is dead tired by the time she gets back and we watch TV together for 30 minutes or so and crash out. We don't really talk about what happened. I mean you know it isn't going to be quick but time sure feels like it's moving slow. Obviously we're both a little touchy. I kind of feel like I didn't do anything wrong but that I have to walk on eggshells. I've tried not throwing it in her face but I can't say it won't ever come up. I kind of feel like we are coasting but I don't know what way we are going. I mean I'd like to find a good place to talk more about if she'll go to counseling. I'd like to confirm that she hasn't talked to dr. d-bag from work (who is also married and I met one time) and that she knows it is 100% unacceptable to continue speaking with him. I'm trying to stay positive (or at least distracted) as I know it's not going to be easy. But part of me gets down at times and thinks that we have to get better than what we were before or it's not worth it to stay in it. I mean once you break trust, a lot of stuff looks different. You remember her being high maintenance about everything instead of thinking about how good of a Mom she is to your child. I don't really want to, but sometimes you just start taking stock of what you have and your chances of getting over this and still finding someone (while your somewhat young) to have a life with. You wonder if that'd be better than what you had before. Basically your mind races through a 100 stupid thoughts an hour. So I'm just trying to stay as positive as I can and get along with her. If it's still like this a month from now, i don't think it'll work. It's not fun thinking that I've wasted a third of my life dating this woman to have it end like this. But life is too short to stay miserable (which I don't think I am at this point but if there is no signs of hope and it drags on...I think I'll hit a low point and possibly give up). So I don't know where this puts me on a scale of 1-10 but hopefully it gets better from here. Anyway, how are things with you Bier? Does anybody's life suck worse than mine right now? You know, so I can feel better? It felt awkward creating this thread and then I was kind of glad that it wasn't top of the page for awhile. I'm really not an attentionwhore and don't try to make a spectacle of what is going on. But I appreciate you checking back with me and it does feel better to talk to someone about this stuff. I've had some PMs and you guys have all been pretty helpful. None of our friends (outside maybe her friends from work) know anything about this so it's hard to be fake about how she was "out of town" last weekend. And it's hard to focus at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh 0ne Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Does anybody's life suck worse than mine right now? My business partner and very close friend is 38 years old, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, is in good shape, has no family history, and has been diagnosed with colon cancer that metasticized to his liver and lungs. That news certainly put a lot of things in perspective for me. Sometimes it's sad that we need things like that to remind us of what's really important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmarc117 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 i know what would make me feel a little better. go have a little chit chat with dr.dbag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 As said earlier, find little ways to let your wife know you love her. Sticky note on the mirror in the bathroom or stuck to the milk jug in the fridge. Put a hershey's kiss on top of her steering wheel that she'll get in the morning on her way to work. If there is anything she feels like she has to nag you about (trash, balance the checkbook, dishes after dinner, whatever), do them preemptively and with a smile. Now is time for you to lead. PS - Schedule a sitter and take her out to dinner, tell the waiter that you'll tip extra because you'll be there a long time, and then just talk to your wife without interruptions beyond, "would you like some more water or some coffee or some dessert?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Tough spot no doubt. I feel for you when your wife said that there was another guy. You wouldn't care if you didn't get upset. What you said may have been a little over the line, but IMO being told that there is another guy and that she's spending the weekend with her parents is worse. My wife and I live were there is no other family around at all. Any argument we get in is ours to solve as there is nowhere else to go. Your wife may come around, but she has to be willing to work it out with you. Leaving to her parents is not the answer. I've seen a number of people posting that you need to be strong. I disagree, I think you need to talk to her and tell her exactly how you feel. Tell her your hurt and that your jealous that some other guy is now important in her life. Ask her how she would feel if you told her the same. Counseling is a good idea. If your really into this marriage then tell her and show her that you really care about her. Do your best to not let her stay at her parents place. Ask her the same, if she's really into this marriage? Ask her what's wrong. Do your best to make her talk to you and just listen to what she has to say. She may say some aweful things about you and things you may or may not have done. Just let her talk. You can fix this, but it's going to take time and it's going to be painful. Be careful of your emotions as they can lead to some snap decisions that you may regret. Hang in there and post something here if you are feeling like crap and just want to vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) As said earlier, find little ways to let your wife know you love her. Sticky note on the mirror in the bathroom or stuck to the milk jug in the fridge. Put a hershey's kiss on top of her steering wheel that she'll get in the morning on her way to work. If there is anything she feels like she has to nag you about (trash, balance the checkbook, dishes after dinner, whatever), do them preemptively and with a smile. Now is time for you to lead. PS - Schedule a sitter and take her out to dinner, tell the waiter that you'll tip extra because you'll be there a long time, and then just talk to your wife without interruptions beyond, "would you like some more water or some coffee or some dessert?" I'm guessing that you aren't suggesting to only do this, but in case you are... This is all good advice, but I would add that you can't just do this and ignore what happened. I think the issues are too deep to be solved by simply taking special attention to his wife. Edited July 28, 2009 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I disagree with your "wait and see" approach. My first wife refused to see a counselor, and if I had to do all over again I would have scheduled an appointment and went by myself, which is what I’d do if I were you. When you get back your wife will ask you what you talked about, and you can answer. The answer will include an invite to go with you next time. Lots on the line dude and too much buried to shelve it for later. BTW – Is your wife’s jogging partner single? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azazello1313 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I disagree with your "wait and see" approach. My first wife refused to see a counselor, and if I had to do all over again I would have scheduled an appointment and went by myself, which is what I’d do if I were you. When you get back your wife will ask you what you talked about, and you can answer. The answer will include an invite to go with you next time. Lots on the line dude and too much buried to shelve it for later. agree with thews. it sounds to me like your wife is simply avoiding right now. which doesn't seem like a great sign to me. wouldn't surprise me if she's pouring her heart out with dr. d-bag about all of it while she's out "jogging". at the very least she needs to tell you that whatever it was is over between them and that she wants to fix things with you. you can take a more passive, wait-and-see approach with some other stuff but those are two things I think you need a committment from her on immediately or things could slip away quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulzale Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I disagree with your "wait and see" approach. My first wife refused to see a counselor, and if I had to do all over again I would have scheduled an appointment and went by myself, which is what I’d do if I were you. When you get back your wife will ask you what you talked about, and you can answer. The answer will include an invite to go with you next time. Lots on the line dude and too much buried to shelve it for later. BTW – Is your wife’s jogging partner single? I think you need to call a counselor and go immediately. Go by yourself if she will not go. Hopefully she comes around and will go at some point, this was one of the reasons my first marriage ended among a few other reasons (many others too, but we never got around to talking about them), but she wouldn't agree to go to counseling and after 4 months I gave her an ultimatum (I knew the answer I dreaded was coming, but I had enough). I have been divorced and remarried, so I know of what I speak. Counseling has helped me tremendously in figuring out my emotions and helping with a successful second marriage (all marriages need work from both sides and a lot of work at times). For me and men in general any down type emotion equals anger. I found that I often appeared angry when in fact I was hurt, sad, etc. (see I still can't come up with more than a couple of emotions!) Any ways, good luck and lots of prayers. PM me for more if you want. Didn't go through the miscarriage stuff, but a lot of other similarities to your situation. Things will get better one way or another! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 My business partner and very close friend is 38 years old, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, is in good shape, has no family history, and has been diagnosed with colon cancer that metasticized to his liver and lungs. That news certainly put a lot of things in perspective for me. Sometimes it's sad that we need things like that to remind us of what's really important. One of my wife's co-workers who is also a close family friend to my in-laws found out recently that she has an aggressive form of breast cancer. She's in great health otherwise, married, kids & only in her early 30's. Also, my wife's best friend found out yesterday that they found her brother dead in his home. In addition to that she lost her mother a few years back and is currently dealing with postpartum depression having recently had her first child. Tough spot no doubt. I feel for you when your wife said that there was another guy. You wouldn't care if you didn't get upset. What you said may have been a little over the line, but IMO being told that there is another guy and that she's spending the weekend with her parents is worse. My wife and I live were there is no other family around at all. Any argument we get in is ours to solve as there is nowhere else to go. Your wife may come around, but she has to be willing to work it out with you. Leaving to her parents is not the answer. I've seen a number of people posting that you need to be strong. I disagree, I think you need to talk to her and tell her exactly how you feel. Tell her your hurt and that your jealous that some other guy is now important in her life. Ask her how she would feel if you told her the same. Counseling is a good idea. If your really into this marriage then tell her and show her that you really care about her. Do your best to not let her stay at her parents place. Ask her the same, if she's really into this marriage? Ask her what's wrong. Do your best to make her talk to you and just listen to what she has to say. She may say some aweful things about you and things you may or may not have done. Just let her talk. You can fix this, but it's going to take time and it's going to be painful. Be careful of your emotions as they can lead to some snap decisions that you may regret. Hang in there and post something here if you are feeling like crap and just want to vent. +1, very good post NAU I disagree with your "wait and see" approach. My first wife refused to see a counselor, and if I had to do all over again I would have scheduled an appointment and went by myself, which is what I’d do if I were you. When you get back your wife will ask you what you talked about, and you can answer. The answer will include an invite to go with you next time. Lots on the line dude and too much buried to shelve it for later. BTW – Is your wife’s jogging partner single? +2 Waiting, to me is only going to make the situation worse. You don't fix a problem by ignoring it and you must find out if she is truly willing to be a part of fixing the problem. agree with thews. it sounds to me like your wife is simply avoiding right now. which doesn't seem like a great sign to me. wouldn't surprise me if she's pouring her heart out with dr. d-bag about all of it while she's out "jogging". at the very least she needs to tell you that whatever it was is over between them and that she wants to fix things with you. you can take a more passive, wait-and-see approach with some other stuff but those are two things I think you need a commitment from her on immediately or things could slip away quickly. +3 I'll be honest, I had to wonder about the jogging deal myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Alright, I take it back. I don't need to hear if anyone's life is worse than mine. Sheesh. No more cancer stories. She has mainly been jogging with her old college roommate (who is married) and last night she went solo but didn't take her phone so I'm not really worried about that. If she wanted to talk to doc d-bag she would just do it at work. We really only started talking again Sunday night so it has only been two nights. I'll see how things go tonight. I'm really not trying to be too passive. I just don't think jamming it down her throat in the first 48 hours is necessarily the best idea. Sunday she told me that he was married and that they both decided they were going to tell their spouses. Doc d-bag's wife actually works with one of my college buddies. Awes-wait for it-some. After some conversation she said she was willing to try. She just hadn't really slept much and asked that we stop talking about it for awhile. It still baffles me that she would fight me about counseling. This chick has a masters degree in social work (and has worked in regular hospitals and mental hospitals). For those of you that don't know, a good portion of the curriculum of social work covers therapy. She could literally be a therapist if she wanted to (never has) and got the right licensing and hours. She tried to tell me that she could understand how me (not being in social work) would be surprised. But she wouldn't do it. I said, "is therapy just one of those things you social workers think everybody else needs, but not you?" She didn't really have a response to that. She was pretty emotional during that conversation on Sunday and I could tell she was confused and at the end of her rope. So, I let it go that day and I didn't bring it up last night. I may or may not do it tonight. The other thing is how do you find a good marriage counselor? I mean, this doesn't seem like something I want to just pick a name out of the yellow pages. Nobody I know has (admitted to me at least) that they've had marriage counseling so I don't have anyone in mind. I don't know of any local websites that give recommendations. I'm not too proud to go by myself. But I just don't know where to go I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muck Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Some chruches offer marriage mentoring and/or recommendations for non-religious therapy sessions. Again, while therapists are nice and all, I (personally) was blessed by a mentor couple who've been married now about 40yrs. About seven years ago, my wife and I spent about 6 weeks (once or twice a week) with them getting stuff out on the table. It was very theraputic for both of us and has continued to benefit us to this day. It was really nice to hear from someone other than our parents (both sets of whom have great marriages) about tough stuff they went through, mistakes they made and how they overcame them. We had books to read and other "face to face" types of homework (all of it involved keeping our clothes on, btw). Don't forget to tell your wife you love her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Maybe you should "talk" to doc d-bag's wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAUgrad Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Alright, I take it back. I don't need to hear if anyone's life is worse than mine. Sheesh. No more cancer stories. She has mainly been jogging with her old college roommate (who is married) and last night she went solo but didn't take her phone so I'm not really worried about that. If she wanted to talk to doc d-bag she would just do it at work. We really only started talking again Sunday night so it has only been two nights. I'll see how things go tonight. I'm really not trying to be too passive. I just don't think jamming it down her throat in the first 48 hours is necessarily the best idea. Sunday she told me that he was married and that they both decided they were going to tell their spouses. Doc d-bag's wife actually works with one of my college buddies. Awes-wait for it-some. After some conversation she said she was willing to try. She just hadn't really slept much and asked that we stop talking about it for awhile. It still baffles me that she would fight me about counseling. This chick has a masters degree in social work (and has worked in regular hospitals and mental hospitals). For those of you that don't know, a good portion of the curriculum of social work covers therapy. She could literally be a therapist if she wanted to (never has) and got the right licensing and hours. She tried to tell me that she could understand how me (not being in social work) would be surprised. But she wouldn't do it. I said, "is therapy just one of those things you social workers think everybody else needs, but not you?" She didn't really have a response to that. She was pretty emotional during that conversation on Sunday and I could tell she was confused and at the end of her rope. So, I let it go that day and I didn't bring it up last night. I may or may not do it tonight. The other thing is how do you find a good marriage counselor? I mean, this doesn't seem like something I want to just pick a name out of the yellow pages. Nobody I know has (admitted to me at least) that they've had marriage counseling so I don't have anyone in mind. I don't know of any local websites that give recommendations. I'm not too proud to go by myself. But I just don't know where to go I guess. If you go to church try the pastor. They can give you some ideas on where to go. Why does she just not want to talk about it? Does she feel bad about it? Or is she trying to figure out what she wants out of your marriage? It probably is to soon, but at some point your going to need to push her a little to see where she stands with the marriage. Again, it sounds like it's way to soon to push, but there is nothing worse that living with a spouse that your not sure wants to be with you. You don't sleep, eat or think clearly. Hang in there on these regards. Be nice to her and talk carefully if you do bring it up. Just remember to do the listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDFFFreak Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) This is a tough spot. She might need space, but it's not entirely fair at the expense of your suffering in silence. I agree with many others that you should go off to therapy on your own even if she's resistant. It should be a condition of the marriage going forward that she attend counseling (either by herself or in couples therapy), but you can't force her. All you can do is push her a little and then leave her if it's not working for you becuse she's not working on it herself. A very difficult thing to do in any case. One place you can attempt to find a therapist in your area is the Psychology Today therapist finder via their web site. The tough part of that is that you have no real personal references, but start somewhere. If you don't like the vibe of that therapist, move on to the next. Trust me, that happens often and you need to find the right therapist for you. Hope that helps a little. Edited July 28, 2009 by TDFFFreak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 If nothing else, therapy can possibly help you identify problems that you need to work on yourself to make the marriage work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thews40 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 The other thing is how do you find a good marriage counselor? I mean, this doesn't seem like something I want to just pick a name out of the yellow pages. Nobody I know has (admitted to me at least) that they've had marriage counseling so I don't have anyone in mind. I don't know of any local websites that give recommendations. I'm not too proud to go by myself. But I just don't know where to go I guess. two cents again... pick one you think she would align with and not you. I'd pick a woman off the net, one that looks like she'd be one your wife would pick out and you make an appointment to see her without asking or telling her...handled. This should be cheap. Next, after you pick one, just make an appointment for yourself and go. When you get back, you can deal with it, but it shows you are the one taking charge. Dude... that's what women want, whether or not that's what they say they want. Handle it... you own it to your child, and she's not making sense. IMO she's the one that made the mistake, you reacted to it, and now she's acting like she may give you another chance. Screw that... just be reasonable, but don't give her the wheel and see where it goes... you call the shot... do what needs to be done. When you look back on your life, no matter how this turns out, what will comfort you either way is that you rose above the petty right vs. wrong bs and just made the right choice. She doesn't wan to see the counselor because she doesn't want to address the problem. So, you have to... you won't regret it, no matter what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuke'em ttg Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 she doesn't want ta go because it's her fault and women hate ta face the music....her mind set is prolly that once there it will turn into hammer time 2 on 1 and that wouldn't be a fun thing for her ta face.....i forgot or didn't understand ....all she was doin was talkin ta a guy from work....sorry ta refuel the fire but was pursing a relationship or was it just work chit chat.......i'll be in Omaha aug 10 & 11 if ya need some recon done with Dr monster truck aficionado....just ask'em what the fok he's doin, i'd do that for ya if ya think it's necessary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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