Alright, I've had it with guns already!

[irish]

I wish we could get rid of guns period. 

[rajncajn]

5 minutes ago, darin3 said:

Sigh.  Getting rid of "recreational" assault rifles seems to be a pretty decent start.  

I've argued against this before & I could still provide a number of reasons why this wouldn't make a difference as well as include a "I know that you don't even know what you're talking about" statement, but at this point I would simply agree. Stop the sale of AR style recreational rifles or at the very least, make them single shot load or non semi-auto reload. Ban any device that would make one perform in a semi-auto or auto capacity.

[rajncajn]

5 minutes ago, irish said:

I wish we could get rid of guns period. 

I will never willingly give up my right to protect myself and my family from harm. If the country as a whole disagrees and passes a law against private gun ownership, I will abide by that law, but I will not do so willingly.

[darin3]

4 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I've argued against this before & I could still provide a number of reasons why this wouldn't make a difference as well as include a "I know that you don't even know what you're talking about" statement, but at this point I would simply agree. Stop the sale of AR style recreational rifles or at the very least, make them single shot load or non semi-auto reload. Ban any device that would make one perform in a semi-auto or auto capacity.

 

If that idiot yesterday "just" had a pistol, things would have still potentially been bad... but...

[League_Champion]

Just now, rajncajn said:

I've argued against this before & I could still provide a number of reasons why this wouldn't make a difference as well as include a "I know that you don't even know what you're talking about" statement, but at this point I would simply agree. Stop the sale of AR style recreational rifles or at the very least, make them single shot load or non semi-auto reload. Ban any device that would make one perform in a semi-auto or auto capacity.

 

There's no such thing as an F'ing "assault rifle". Is a 10/22 an "assault rifle" because it's semi automatic or is the AR an "assault rifle" because it looks scary to uneducated gun haters? You know, an AR is no different from any other rifle or semi-auto shotgun for that matter

.

[irish]

7 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I will never willingly give up my right to protect myself and my family from harm. If the country as a whole disagrees and passes a law against private gun ownership, I will abide by that law, but I will not do so willingly.

Completely understand, I'm just unrealistically wishing that the world never got to this point, but in reality, it's always been a dog eat dog world. Wish things could just be peaceful. 

[rajncajn]

3 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

There's no such thing as an F'ing "assault rifle". Is a 10/22 an "assault rifle" because it's semi automatic or is the AR an "assault rifle" because it looks scary to uneducated gun haters? You know, an AR is no different from any other rifle or semi-auto shotgun for that matter

.

Yes, I know that. That's why I framed my response the way that I did. I don't like it any more than you do, but when every single instance of this happening is using the same stylized rifle with a pistol grip etc, then I think we need to address that in some way that will limit these occurrences. If they can't come up with something better than an outright ban, which the SHOULD be able to do if they weren't such idiots, then just ban the damn things already and get it over with.

[rajncajn]

7 minutes ago, darin3 said:

 

If that idiot yesterday "just" had a pistol, things would have still potentially been bad... but...

You're fooling yourself if you think the outcome would be different.

[League_Champion]

2 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

Yes, I know that. That's why I framed my response the way that I did. I don't like it any more than you do, but when every single instance of this happening is using the same stylized rifle with a pistol grip etc, then I think we need to address that in some way that will limit these occurrences. If they can't come up with something better than an outright ban, which the SHOULD be able to do if they weren't such idiots, then just ban the damn things already and get it over with.

 

Yeah, because you couldn't inflict the same damage with a handgun, rifle or shotgun. That's where they get crazy with the "assault rifle" BS. There's no such thing

[League_Champion]

11 minutes ago, darin3 said:

 

If that idiot yesterday "just" had a pistol, things would have still potentially been bad... but...

 

I have news for you, it would of been worse if he had a 9mm handgun. Lighter, smaller, easier to reload and stealthy. Please know your facts if you're going to talk guns with gun people. 

[BillyBalata]

19 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

I will never willingly give up my right to protect myself and my family from harm. If the country as a whole disagrees and passes a law against private gun ownership, I will abide by that law, but I will not do so willingly.

 

Help me out here, can you explain what you mean when twice you pointed out you wouldn't do it "willingly."?

 

That said, I don't think you should have to give up your guns. I do think at this point in time,somehow there needs to be more regulation when it comes to owning a gun. when i was growing up every single kid i know had to go thru a gun training class to get a hunting licence. whatever.  I've had shotguns and 22's.  hunted squirrels, pheasan and grouse.  the most enjoyment i had hunting with my grandpa's old single shot 22 hunting squirrels, having to sneak up on them to make that one shot count.  not sure i get the hunting aspect of needing a semi automatic for any kind of hunting.  again, that said, i get why someone enjoys just blasting manure with semi auto. back in the day we blasted manure with a 12 gauge.

 

if there is ever going to be a solution, it's not going to come from the side against guns, it has to come from people like rajn and LC coming up with a solution and not telling people they don't understand guns. if you guys can't help with a solution, you don't understand guns. for 8 years you all thought Obama was coming for your guns. yea that happened.

 

 

[rajncajn]

6 minutes ago, BillyBalata said:

 

Help me out here, can you explain what you mean when twice you pointed out you wouldn't do it "willingly."?

 

That said, I don't think you should have to give up your guns. I do think at this point in time,somehow there needs to be more regulation when it comes to owning a gun. when i was growing up every single kid i know had to go thru a gun training class to get a hunting licence. whatever.  I've had shotguns and 22's.  hunted squirrels, pheasan and grouse.  the most enjoyment i had hunting with my grandpa's old single shot 22 hunting squirrels, having to sneak up on them to make that one shot count.  not sure i get the hunting aspect of needing a semi automatic for any kind of hunting.  again, that said, i get why someone enjoys just blasting manure with semi auto. back in the day we blasted manure with a 12 gauge.

 

if there is ever going to be a solution, it's not going to come from the side against guns, it has to come from people like rajn and LC coming up with a solution and not telling people they don't understand guns. if you guys can't help with a solution, you don't understand guns. for 8 years you all thought Obama was coming for your guns. yea that happened.

 

 

Willingly was perhaps the wrong choice of words.  I don't mean that I would fight anyone who tried to take them.  I would turn them over begrudgingly and then vote to have my right to own restored.

 

I agree with everything else you said, especially the part about gun owners and gun advocates needing to step up to the plate and actuality do something to help come up with a solution that works,  up to and including serious gun legislation. The only part I take issue with personally is the "you all thought Obama" part. Ihabe never thought that, never claimed to think that and I voted for Obama's 2nd term even though I wasn't completely happy with his policies. I don't think the vast majority of gun owners thought that either.

[darin3]

Yeah I'm done here.  

[rajncajn]

2 minutes ago, darin3 said:

Yeah I'm done here.  

If you read on a bit in his response to me,  he's not necessarily disagreeing with you.  It's just a common frustration among gun owners to see people talking about banning assault rifles and automatic rifles and what one gun vs another would do when it's clear to any gun owner that they don't understand the actual difference between one and the other.  Take a .223 for instance. That is probably the most popular hunting and sport and rec rifle around.  There is literally no difference whatsoever in capability, round etc.  The only difference is the look and even then,  many of the hunting rifles these days are using the same look.  The problem here is that it would be very difficult to write a law that bans these or most any type of rifle aside from not allowing a semi-auto capability and in that case you'd be banning a large number of hunting weapons, including most shotguns. In terms of rounds, a .223 is a smaller diameter round than a 9mm, but it does have a higher velocity. But if you're talking about this situation,  the higher velocity really makes no difference because that's only going to make the round go further and wouldn't apply in this situation anyway.  A 9mm at the range of a classroom is going to be just as lethal, but on top of that it's going to lighter, easier to handle,  easier to reload,  easier to manage, easier to conceal and just as accurate from those distances.

[League_Champion]

38 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

If you read on a bit in his response to me,  he's not necessarily disagreeing with you.  It's just a common frustration among gun owners to see people talking about banning assault rifles and automatic rifles and what one gun vs another would do when it's clear to any gun owner that they don't understand the actual difference between one and the other.  Take a .223 for instance. That is probably the most popular hunting and sport and rec rifle around.  There is literally no difference whatsoever in capability, round etc.  The only difference is the look and even then,  many of the hunting rifles these days are using the same look.  The problem here is that it would be very difficult to write a law that bans these or most any type of rifle aside from not allowing a semi-auto capability and in that case you'd be banning a large number of hunting weapons, including most shotguns. In terms of rounds, a .223 is a smaller diameter round than a 9mm, but it does have a higher velocity. But if you're talking about this situation,  the higher velocity really makes no difference because that's only going to make the round go further and wouldn't apply in this situation anyway.  A 9mm at the range of a classroom is going to be just as lethal, but on top of that it's going to lighter, easier to handle,  easier to reload,  easier to manage, easier to conceal and just as accurate from those distances.

 

Very well stated. It makes me sick when they start throwing around words like "assault rifle" when they have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

 

People, we all agree that something needs to be done but please know what you're talking about before spewing garbage. 

[Bobby Brown]

34 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

please know what you're talking about before spewing garbage. 

Did you get struck by lightning after posting this?

Edited May 25, 2022 by Bobby Brown

[League_Champion]

28 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

Did you get struck by lightning after posting this?

 

Are you going to tell me about guns as well or are you going to flake out again? 

[gilthorp]

 

 

I don't give a crap about the semantics either of you are using, and the fact that people don't know their "guns" shouldn't disqualify them from the discussion.

 

Oh...and the "I will always protect my family" and "me and my perfect kids and our 23 guns" is a big crock of sh!t and a diversion to the topic of accessibility of these types of killing machines.

 

So just go ahead and say it then. We all need to be OK with any 18 year old buying these things, going back and loading up on more ammo, and potentially murdering 10 year olds. Bravo.

[rajncajn]

38 minutes ago, gilthorp said:

I don't give a crap about the semantics either of you are using, and the fact that people don't know their "guns" shouldn't disqualify them from the discussion.

 

Oh...and the "I will always protect my family" and "me and my perfect kids and our 23 guns" is a big crock of sh!t and a diversion to the topic of accessibility of these types of killing machines.

 

So just go ahead and say it then. We all need to be OK with any 18 year old buying these things, going back and loading up on more ammo, and potentially murdering 10 year olds. Bravo.

I think you should go back and reread what I've posted because none of this is even remotely close. I even said,  replying to you no less, that I think we should raise the age limit for purchasing or even possessing without supervision. 

 

I don't give a crap about semantics either,  but I didn't want Darin to leave the discussion and I wanted to explain why LC reacted that way.  LC did overreact, but I thought it was misunderstood. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by rajncajn

[Bobby Brown]

2 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

Are you going to tell me about guns 

Nope You parody yourself without any help.  Last gun thread it was 'criminals aren't running around with legally purchased guns.'

Now you're sassy and whining about people spewing garbage.

You have all the wherewithall of Yosemite Sam chasing Bugs Bunny on these boards.  😀

  

[1fastdoc]

On 5/25/2022 at 2:34 PM, League_Champion said:

 

I have news for you, it would of been worse if he had a 9mm handgun. Lighter, smaller, easier to reload and stealthy. Please know your facts if you're going to talk guns with gun people. 

 

As someone who shoots competitively, I respectfully disagree.  A 16-20" barrel .223 is far more accurate with repeated shots than even my far more expensive competition built pistols.  And the capacity is higher.  

 

My unsolicited opinion - get rid of the myriad of games that glorify combat.  Kids grow up playing Fortnite, COD, etc and for most it will never translate to gun violence.  But for those with mental health issues, most of which are undiagnosed until they snap, playing hundreds of hours of COD is essentially conditioning.  

[Bobby Brown]

All for investments in improving children's mental health. But it doesn't seem like politicians in the NRA's pocket are motivated to fund mental health programs or policies either.

Do what you want to with video games.  But I'm certainly not convinced video games contribute to mass killings anymore than 80s heavy metal music made people commit suicide.  I mean, every kid in the world plays the same games and somehow they don't end up slaughtering other kids.  

Seems like Ameicans go through an awful lot of mental gymnastics to deny that easy access to mass amounts of guns has a whole F'n lot to do with our mass amounts of gun violence.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Bobby Brown

[rajncajn]

2 hours ago, 1fastdoc said:

 

As someone who shoots competitively, I respectfully disagree.  A 16-20" barrel .223 is far more accurate with repeated shots than even my far more expensive competition built pistols.  And the capacity is higher.  

 

My unsolicited opinion - get rid of the myriad of games that glorify combat.  Kids grow up playing Fortnite, COD, etc and for most it will never translate to gun violence.  But for those with mental health issues, most of which are undiagnosed until they snap, playing hundreds of hours of COD is essentially conditioning.  

When there is a classroom full of kids huddled into a corner,  range accuracy makes no difference.

 

That's not to say that I don't agree that there needs to be some sort of limitations on purchasing those style weapons,  just stating the unfortunate and tragic facts.

Edited May 27, 2022 by rajncajn

[rajncajn]

9 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

All for investments in improving children's mental health. But it doesn't seem like politicians in the NRA's pocket are motivated to fund mental health programs or policies either.

Do what you want to with video games.  But I'm certainly not convinced video games contribute to mass killings anymore than 80s heavy metal music made people commit suicide.  I mean, every kid in the world plays the same games and somehow they don't end up slaughtering other kids.  

Seems like Ameicans go through an awful lot of mental gymnastics to deny that easy access to mass amounts of guns has a whole F'n lot to do with our mass amounts of gun violence.

Agree with this. Time for all of them to put up or shut up.  Republicans have been pushing the mental health narrative and I agree that it's an issue. Now they need to actually do something about it. 

Edited May 27, 2022 by rajncajn

[rajncajn]

If they don't already, Dept of Homeland Security needs to have a task force set up for school security. Every single school needs to have their security measures, adequacy and protocols evaluated and whatever issues they have need to be corrected asap. Schools also need to be randomly tested, without warning to evaluate their response and adherence to protocols. After seeing more about what happened leading up to this, there were opportunities there to prevent it. The guy was shooting at people outside of the school and shot at the school from outside. All he did was hop a fence and walk right in from a side door. The classroom he went into had the door wide open and he just walked right in. WTF?

Edited May 27, 2022 by rajncajn