Tom Brady Retiring, for real this time.

[Bobby Brown]

4 hours ago, Bier Meister said:

I am not sure that I ever hated him, just thought he was  overrated early in his career (felt the same about Rapelessburger) due to amazing defense, special teams and running game.

He has benefited from more than a handful of "bounces" in tight, meaningful games but is truly a great QB and created many opportunities himself.  In general, the game was better for having him in it.

The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL.  It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus.

[purplemonster]

10 Superbowls in 23 seasons. That is pretty incredible 

[League_Champion]

6 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL.  It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus.

Except they don't play the AFC East in the Superbowl. Your point is meaningless. 

[irish]

7 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL.  It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus.

Great point, and I always felt the same way. To reach the SB, you need to get to the show and many times getting 10+ wins would get you there. So getting almost 6 wins per year from within your own division, just seemed like he was receiving a fast pass to the playoffs every year. 

[Running With Daboll]

18 hours ago, League_Champion said:

I agree, but Tommy's never complained about his situation. It's tough for anyone to go through, I don't care who you are. 

There's a few in here that hate Brady for other reasons, but how can you hate on Brady for what he's accomplished in the NFL? He's had mind blowing success that will never be duplicated. We've had the honor of watching a master at his craft.

You go Tommy Boy! Thanks for the memories. Patriots still suck!!!! 

His private life is none of anyone's business, and I certainly can recognize that it's a difficult time in anyone's life.  But my issue is that I have never considered Brady to be the "GOAT", and certainly not the greatest player the NFL has ever seen.

I could go on forever, but I'll condense it to this:

Yes, statistically speaking, Brady has amassed a formidable record, with 7 Super Bowl rings as the cherry on top. But most of his records are the result of longevity in the league. I don't take longevity lightly, it's a major accomplishment, and it needs to be considered when all is said and done. (In fact, Eli's longevity could be the determining factor for him getting into the HOF.  Yes, he won 2 SB's, but like Brady, or any other SB winning QB, he had a lot of help doing it.  But longevity is something that is a very individual accomplishment, and it's a big one. So, when all is said and done, I think this aspect of his career puts him over the hump).

Brady has never been the best athlete on the field.  He can't run, and he has always shown his Achilles heel when pressured.

But by far the greatest advantage he has had is from the system he spent most of his career in.  Some will give Brady the lion's share of credit for the Patriots success.  Some will give it to Billy boy.  But I have always maintained that each deserves 50% of the credit for their dominance.  Both benefited from the other, and they BOTH benefited from playing in the league's weakest division for a considerable amount of time.

Generally speaking, playing in the AFC East gave them a minimum of 5 wins (or 6) right from the jump, on average, season after season. This helped pave their way to many home playoff games, and a ticket to the Super Bowl. Again in general, for most of the time Brady quarterbacked the Patriots, the AFC was not a very competitive conference.

There's so much more to break down about him, but just not enough space to do it. Yes, Brady has all the records, but he also got caught cheating. He also regularly threw many teammates under the bus on national TV, be it on the field or on the sidelines, yet you never saw him EVER point the finger at himself for effing up, which he did on numerous occasions.  But people try to gaslight this behavior into...'he was just motivating and leading'.  What a load of horsechit that is.

Look, the guy had a great career, no doubt about it.  But this deification of him is ridiculous. He is the greatest "statistical" QB the NFL has ever seen, but I will never say that he was the best all around QB the NFL has ever seen.  Dan Marino never had the good fortune of winning a SB, primarily because the Dolphin teams he played for didn't believe in defense.  He couldn't run either, but in my book, he was a superior talent to Brady, as is Aaron Rodgers, and others. Where Brady did stand out (contingent on circumstances) was his ability for raising the games of his teammates. But even that has to be taken with a grain of salt, because you first need teammates that have the capability of having their games raises. As we saw this past year, his fellow Bucs weren't capable in that regard.

As I said, I could go on for a long time about this guy, but it's time to just let go of it. Adios Brady, stay retired this time.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Running With Daboll

[Running With Daboll]

8 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL.  It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus.

 

9 minutes ago, irish said:

Great point, and I always felt the same way. To reach the SB, you need to get to the show and many times getting 10+ wins would get you there. So getting almost 6 wins per year from within your own division, just seemed like he was receiving a fast pass to the playoffs every year. 

Yup, been saying that for years.

[Running With Daboll]

15 hours ago, purplemonster said:

Relationships are tough you never know the full story. Sure it seems like him reneging on retirement was what caused the divorce but I'm sure it is a lot more complicated than that. 

Yes sir, usually by the time "divorce" is mentioned, the relationship has reached a death by a thousand cuts.  This thing was brewing for a good while I'm sure.

[purplemonster]

9 hours ago, rajncajn said:

I'll never forget this one.

I don't know what you are talking about, that's a good clean tackle 

[League_Champion]

https://nypost.com/2023/02/01/tom-brady-greg-olsen-drama-looms-with-375-million-fox-contract/

[purplemonster]

27 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

https://nypost.com/2023/02/01/tom-brady-greg-olsen-drama-looms-with-375-million-fox-contract/

It seems high. I don't know how confident they are he is that great on camera. What if he is a bit of a stiff? Have they demo'd him enough to know? Is this guaranteed money? I don't particularly care if TB is calling the game vs Greg Olsen, particularly if Brady is not as engaging. Does having TB really drive that much revenue? Seems unlikely to me, but I don't know. 

[League_Champion]

25 minutes ago, purplemonster said:

It seems high. I don't know how confident they are he is that great on camera. What if he is a bit of a stiff? Have they demo'd him enough to know? Is this guaranteed money? I don't particularly care if TB is calling the game vs Greg Olsen, particularly if Brady is not as engaging. Does having TB really drive that much revenue? Seems unlikely to me, but I don't know. 

I agree, that number seems absurd. I'd be shocked if that's true. 

[rajncajn]

1 hour ago, purplemonster said:

It seems high. I don't know how confident they are he is that great on camera. What if he is a bit of a stiff? Have they demo'd him enough to know? Is this guaranteed money? I don't particularly care if TB is calling the game vs Greg Olsen, particularly if Brady is not as engaging. Does having TB really drive that much revenue? Seems unlikely to me, but I don't know. 

From my experience,  most actual football fans don't really care for him. So I don't see how this will go over very well. That said,  the network will shove him down your throat anyway because they know you will watch regardless. He's not there for the true football fans, he's there for the types of people who are going to see '80 for Brady.'

Edited February 2, 2023 by rajncajn

[stevegrab]

10 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL.  It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus.

A bit of analysis on that...Brady took over in 2001 (last year AFC East had 5 teams), win totals by other div teams

30, 26, 22, 23, 18, 23, 12, 27, 22, 22, 20, 19, 22, 21, 24, 22, 20, 17, 22, 

An average of .500 by the other 3 teams would be 24 wins. There were some lean years, with one team at 8-10 wins and the other 2 around 4-5. 2007 was particularly bad with all 3 teams below .500, BUF best at 7 wins, NYJ just 4 and 1 for MIA.

There is no doubt Brady is great, I can even go along with GOAT, and even those can be replaced in the future. Though parity seems to be more present today then when his career started. Just looking at the list of accomplishments (from the top of his Pro Football Reference page)

 

[stevegrab]

3 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

From my experience,  most actual football fans don't really care for him. So I don't see how this will go over very well. That said,  the network will shove him down your throat anyway because they know you will watch regardless. He's not there for the true football fans, he's there for the types of people who are going to see '80 for Brady.'

If he is really good at it like Romo he may win some people over. I cannot stand the Cowboys and thought he was overrated as a player. Then he gets the #1 job handed to him, while others who are good spend years trying to move up a spot. But they clearly saw something special in him, and it works. I'm a fan, I like his analysis and how he presents. 

I don't know if Fox did similar testing with TB like CBS did with Romo to see what he had before offering him a huge deal and the top spot. But I doubt the dislike for him is nearly as strong with most fans as it is for TB. He'll only be "shoved down our throats" by the nature of him doing the or top games broadcast to the largest portion of fans. That's how the broadcaster pecking order goes. Chris Myers may not be very good, but the games he does go to small regions of the country. You see him maybe 4-5 weekends a year tops (if you watch every game you get in your market). The top guys like Romo and now Olsen (previously Buck/Aikman) you get nearly every weekend. 

[rajncajn]

52 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

If he is really good at it like Romo he may win some people over. I cannot stand the Cowboys and thought he was overrated as a player. Then he gets the #1 job handed to him, while others who are good spend years trying to move up a spot. But they clearly saw something special in him, and it works. I'm a fan, I like his analysis and how he presents. 

I don't know if Fox did similar testing with TB like CBS did with Romo to see what he had before offering him a huge deal and the top spot. But I doubt the dislike for him is nearly as strong with most fans as it is for TB. He'll only be "shoved down our throats" by the nature of him doing the or top games broadcast to the largest portion of fans. That's how the broadcaster pecking order goes. Chris Myers may not be very good, but the games he does go to small regions of the country. You see him maybe 4-5 weekends a year tops (if you watch every game you get in your market). The top guys like Romo and now Olsen (previously Buck/Aikman) you get nearly every weekend. 

The big difference between Brady & Romo is that Romo, as a person, is a genuinely likable and entertaining guy, not to mention the female fans swoon over him. It was a big plus to the actual fans that he's very knowledgeable with X's & O's and that translated very well to his commentary. In contrast, Brees is also a likable person and very knowledgeable. But he doesn't have the same swoon factor and he just wasn't ever very comfortable behind the camera & so it didn't translate. He came across very stiff and awkward. Brady, on the other hand, is a winner & a competitor, but a major part of what made him that is that he's a completely self-absorbed a-hole. To the unwashed masses he's mostly a pretty face with big accolades and so Fox is banking on him being the complete package like Romo, only with the ultimate football resume to go with it. However, when he's put on stage where he actually has to BE the person he's projected as I think he'll fall far short of the mark. Unfortunately, though, he's Tom f'n Brady. Seven-time Superbowl winner, holder of all the records, married a supermodel, subject of blockbuster movies, so on & so forth... He's going to be put front & center regardless of how much he sucks as an analyst or commentator because he's the gold-plated goose.

[purplemonster]

5 minutes ago, rajncajn said:

The big difference between Brady & Romo is that Romo, as a person, is a genuinely likable and entertaining guy, not to mention the female fans swoon over him. It was a big plus to the actual fans that he's very knowledgeable with X's & O's and that translated very well to his commentary. In contrast, Brees is also a likable person and very knowledgeable. But he doesn't have the same swoon factor and he just wasn't ever very comfortable behind the camera & so it didn't translate. He came across very stiff and awkward. Brady, on the other hand, is a winner & a competitor, but a major part of what made him that is that he's a completely self-absorbed a-hole. To the unwashed masses he's mostly a pretty face with big accolades and so Fox is banking on him being the complete package like Romo, only with the ultimate football resume to go with it. However, when he's put on stage where he actually has to BE the person he's projected as I think he'll fall far short of the mark. Unfortunately, though, he's Tom f'n Brady. Seven-time Superbowl winner, holder of all the records, married a supermodel, subject of blockbuster movies, so on & so forth... He's going to be put front & center regardless of how much he sucks as an analyst or commentator because he's the gold-plated goose.

He just seems like a bit of a stiff. We have seen him in 20+ years of interviews and he rarely divulges anything terribly interesting. He fit well with BB and his reluctance to give away any information. TB's teammates seemed to like him though and he's more natural when you see behind the scenes stuff, like with AB's text messages. But he seems to have his guard up with the public and unless he can be more natural and likable, funny, interesting, I dunno maybe he is, I doubt that's going to translate into compelling TV.

[League_Champion]

 

[stevegrab]

I saw a bit of his retirement video on the news last night (had no interest in it, but it was shown as part of the story so I watched) and he seemed genuine and emotional.  If he can bring some of that to TV, and be less of an a-hole as rajn says he may do OK. He will have to overcome a lot of fan dislike to win people over. But of course us hard core fans are not going to skip watching the biggest games on Fox's schedule just because we don't like him. (Hard to mute just his part of the broadcast.) 

It is kind of like Bob Dole, I didn't care for him on the campaign trail, just a stiff gruff old guy. Then he was on Jay Leno cracking jokes and having a good time. Changed my view a bit, in just a few minutes. 

[Running With Daboll]

29 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

With respect to that Eagles team, I do believe that his MOST famous (infamous?) loss was to the 2007 NYG.

As I recall, he (Brady) was chuckling before the game when told that Plaxico Burress predicted the Patriots would only score 17 points.  As it turned out, Plax was indeed wrong about that...they only scored 14.

I'm usually a "never say never" guy, but I find it hard to believe that I could ever derive more satisfaction from a Giants win than that game.

[Bier Meister]

I am sure that I have posted this before....

 

 

TUCK RULE

Vinatieri making the toughest FG in NFL history

Won 2001 AFC Champ game despite leading offense to 0 points

Won SB 36 despite leading offense to just 13 points

Won 2007 AFC Champ game despite 3 ints and a 66.4 passer rating

Won 2011 AFC Champ game despite 2 ints and a 57.5 passer rating

Won SB 49 despite playing like crap for 3 qrts, gets bailed out by Malcolm Butler (Worst play in NFL history and voted as such by NFL Films Top 10 Worst plays)

Won SB 51 despite playing like crap for 3 qrts and throwing a PICK6 (Falcons greatest collapse in NFL history and Brady needed 2 pointers making him the only QB in NFL history to need 2 pointers to win a SB)

Won SB 53 despite scoring just 13 points and a 71.4 passer rating

Super Bowl Record when leading offense to 13 or fewer points:

Tom Brady 2–0

Every other QB in NFL history 0–25

SB XXXVIII was bitter sweet for Kasay. Although he converted a 50-yard field goal and made both extra attempts, his final kickoff went out of bounds, incurring an illegal procedure penalty that placed the ball on the 40. This assisted Brady on the drive that resulted in the game winning field goal.

Seen any other player have that much good fortune?

[Bobby Brown]

6 hours ago, League_Champion said:

Except they don't play the AFC East in the Superbowl. Your point is meaningless. 

In the future I'll make a more concerted effort to post meaningful tidbits, like Davis Mills being a future HOFr and Hurts not belonging in the NFL, 20 to 30 times a week.  

[darin3]

5 hours ago, Running With Daboll said:

His private life is none of anyone's business, and I certainly can recognize that it's a difficult time in anyone's life.  But my issue is that I have never considered Brady to be the "GOAT", and certainly not the greatest player the NFL has ever seen.

I could go on forever, but I'll condense it to this:

<7 more paragraphs>

 

 

 

[stevegrab]

16 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

I am sure that I have posted this before....

 

 

TUCK RULE

Vinatieri making the toughest FG in NFL history

Won 2001 AFC Champ game despite leading offense to 0 points

Won SB 36 despite leading offense to just 13 points

Won 2007 AFC Champ game despite 3 ints and a 66.4 passer rating

Won 2011 AFC Champ game despite 2 ints and a 57.5 passer rating

Won SB 49 despite playing like crap for 3 qrts, gets bailed out by Malcolm Butler (Worst play in NFL history and voted as such by NFL Films Top 10 Worst plays)

Won SB 51 despite playing like crap for 3 qrts and throwing a PICK6 (Falcons greatest collapse in NFL history and Brady needed 2 pointers making him the only QB in NFL history to need 2 pointers to win a SB)

Won SB 53 despite scoring just 13 points and a 71.4 passer rating

Super Bowl Record when leading offense to 13 or fewer points:

Tom Brady 2–0

Every other QB in NFL history 0–25

SB XXXVIII was bitter sweet for Kasay. Although he converted a 50-yard field goal and made both extra attempts, his final kickoff went out of bounds, incurring an illegal procedure penalty that placed the ball on the 40. This assisted Brady on the drive that resulted in the game winning field goal.

Seen any other player have that much good fortune?

Never seen that before, very interesting. Did you just type it up now? Or is it saved in a document titled "Tom Brady NOT the GOAT" ?

[Bier Meister]

10 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Never seen that before, very interesting. Did you just type it up now? Or is it saved in a document titled "Tom Brady NOT the GOAT" ?

oh, i cut and paste and no longer have the source. I do not know how long you have been here, but i brought some of this up when it was happening (rebutting Ugly Tuna, a staunch Pats fan).  

 

I made similar comments about ben and ruffled some feathers of a friend on here who was quite inebriated celebrating a horridly officiated SB vs the Hawks.

 

now... had purdy stayed healthy and hypothetically won the NFCC game and SB I would have been ecstatic but would not be anointing him a goat due to that defense and running game they have.  Having those elements early in one's career enable a qb to actually develop some game iq and abilities.  

after about 4 years brady and ben were able to start carrying their teams, but the championships were not won on their backs (early).

Edited February 2, 2023 by Bier Meister

[stevegrab]

OMG Ugly Tuna reference 🤢