rajncajn Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 3 hours ago, purplemonster said: FWIW Bill Barnwell put together this. It is mostly stats driven but he is a Northeastern Grad which is in Boston https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25787154/fact-checking-patriots-18-year-nfl-dynasty-real-myth Patriots were consistently one of the least penalized teams in the league pretty much every year and their opponents were nearly always penalized more. I guess you could attribute much of that to good coaching, but it's still pretty suspicious. I'm no conspiracy theorists, but I think it's pretty obvious Brady and the Pats saw a lot of preferential treatment. You don't have to look much further than the difference in penalties in Tampa prior to and after Brady's arrival. I'm pretty sure I've posted these stats before. I'll try to find a link to it. That said, it's not always about the penalties that are called, which is pretty much all his analysis covers. It's the ones that don't get called that often matter more, like the pic of the blatant holding I posted earlier. What you don't see in that pic is the referee looking right at that hold and letting Brady throw for a touchdown to win the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running With Daboll Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 23 hours ago, League_Champion said: In all fairness a 40 something Brady did take a good, not great Tampa team to a Superbowl and win it. That was undeniably on Brady's shoulders. That's what sealed it for me. After that win, there was no question in my mind that he was the greatest ever. What he did in Tampa was admirable, but if he had taken a team that wasn't as Super Bowl viable as those Bucs to a championship, then that would have been more convincing for me. Don't forget, his presence there coerced Gronk out of retirement, and Fournette came into his own for them that season. Plus, the defense was stout. In other words, Brady wasn't going to go anywhere that would set him up for failure. Still, winning another Super Bowl was not a given, so he deserves credit for the accomplishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running With Daboll Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 21 hours ago, Bier Meister said: Brady at 40 was a much different Qb than those early years. Are you also forgetting how depleted NEP was the last year or two beofre brady left NEP? The team was in massive rebuild and BB still got them back into the playoffs (and I really can't stand BB). This is a key point that I had forgotten. Was it a "divorce" (so to speak) from Belichick that Brady desired, or was his departure from New England primarily based on the team's clear lack of talent, thereby making another Super Bowl appearance with them unlikely? It's the latter for me, although I'm sure that he was ready to move on anyway. But my guess is that if Brady thought his supporting cast would suffice in New England, he would have stuck around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running With Daboll Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 23 hours ago, rajncajn said: Drew Bledsoe was playing every bit as good a Brady before his injury. Had it not been for Bledsoe, there likely wouldn't have ever been a Brady. It sure would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Bledsoe not gotten hurt. I do think that it's quite possible that BB never reaches the conclusion that Brady was "his" guy without that Bledsoe injury. On the other hand, if BB is/was arguably the GOAT of the coaching ranks, it might just have been a matter of time before he recognized what he had in that 6th rounder. We'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 23 hours ago, rajncajn said: Drew Bledsoe was playing every bit as good a Brady before his injury. Had it not been for Bledsoe, there likely wouldn't have ever been a Brady. Bledsoe wasn't going to win squat. Brady has the killer in him, Bledsoe not so much. BB knew that early on, that's where the Brady story begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemonster Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 2 hours ago, League_Champion said: Bledsoe wasn't going to win squat. Brady has the killer in him, Bledsoe not so much. BB knew that early on, that's where the Brady story begins. We can go back and forth in here and say what we think but it's revisionist to a degree because it's hard to remember what people thought at the time. At the time, after Brady took over it sure sounds like Brady was an ascendant QB who was preternaturally smart and good at reading defenses and was improving his physical attributes. He was not the 6th round schlub he was drafted as. And it sounded like a decent portion of that was because U of Michigan played Drew Henson, a raw freshman, with Brady his senior year, so they figured MI must have known something they didn't. I included another article from a guy who felt Bledsoe was the better QB but in the newish salary cap era Brady was the better value. Interesting history here in these articles I think most football fans would enjoy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/vault.si.com/.amp/vault/2001/11/19/go-to-guy-when-quarterback-drew-bledsoe-went-down-the-patriots-turned-to-unheralded-tom-brady-who-is-the-biggest-surprise-of-the-first-half https://www.espn.com/chrismortensen/s/2001/1123/1283247.html https://slate.com/culture/2001/12/bledsoe-vs-brady-who-should-the-patriots-pick.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 15 minutes ago, purplemonster said: We can go back and forth in here and say what we think but it's revisionist to a degree because it's hard to remember what people thought at the time. At the time, after Brady took over it sure sounds like Brady was an ascendant QB who was preternaturally smart and good at reading defenses and was improving his physical attributes. He was not the 6th round schlub he was drafted as. And it sounded like a decent portion of that was because U of Michigan played Drew Henson, a raw freshman, with Brady his senior year, so they figured MI must have known something they didn't. I included another article from a guy who felt Bledsoe was the better QB but in the newish salary cap era Brady was the better value. Interesting history here in these articles I think most football fans would enjoy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/vault.si.com/.amp/vault/2001/11/19/go-to-guy-when-quarterback-drew-bledsoe-went-down-the-patriots-turned-to-unheralded-tom-brady-who-is-the-biggest-surprise-of-the-first-half https://www.espn.com/chrismortensen/s/2001/1123/1283247.html https://slate.com/culture/2001/12/bledsoe-vs-brady-who-should-the-patriots-pick.html 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 5 hours ago, League_Champion said: Bledsoe wasn't going to win squat. Wow. What solid input. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def. Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 22 hours ago, Bobby Brown said: Wow. What solid input. Limited_Communication 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Brown Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 3 hours ago, darin3 said: Limited_Communication Lazy_Commentary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big John Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 He won't be on Fox until 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darin3 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 17 minutes ago, Big John said: He won't be on Fox until 2024. Lingering_Contract Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrab Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 16 hours ago, Big John said: He won't be on Fox until 2024. Interesting, and will be nice to get a year off from Brady Reporter seems to think Fox may not be sure what to do with their #1 analyst spot come 2024. I doubt they're paying Brady that to be a #2, nor do I see a 3 person booth. Had he joined Fox this year he'd no doubt have been part of their team covering the SB. He'll have to wait a few years to get back to the SB stage. https://www.nfl.com/news/tom-brady-says-he-expects-to-begin-his-fox-broadcasting-career-in-fall-2024#:~:text=Last May%2C FOX Sports announced,made waves in the industry. https://www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/news/tom-brady-announces-date-to-officially-join-fox-sports-on-massive-ten-year-deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 44 minutes ago, stevegrab said: Interesting, and will be nice to get a year off from Brady I just can't see him as a broadcaster. I'm sure he's knowledgeable but he's so dry and boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 On 2/1/2023 at 10:50 PM, Bobby Brown said: The AFC east was also bad during his Patriots career. Bills, Dolphins, and Jets were so bad for so long it's probably a statistical miracle in the parity age of the NFL. It almost felt like New England was spotted 6 wins every season for a decade plus. Montana had that advantage as well. NFC east were beating the crap out of each other and the Niners had a cakewalk every year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, whomper said: Montana had that advantage as well. NFC east were beating the crap out of each other and the Niners had a cakewalk every year you and I keep going back and forth on this. There was always 1 or 2 formidable teams in the division. Eta: at worst, they were middle of the pack. Edited February 7, 2023 by Bier Meister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Just now, Bier Meister said: you and I keep going back and forth on this. There was always 1 or 2 formidable teams in the division. As formidable as LT, The Hogs etc ?? The saints fans had bags over their heads for a decade . Falcons were mediocre at best . Montana didnt get his uniform dirty until the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, whomper said: As formidable as LT, The Hogs etc ?? The saints fans had bags over their heads for a decade . Falcons were mediocre at best . Montana didnt get his uniform dirty until the playoffs Atlanta was the suck for a long time. i am reviewing divisions from 81-00. you are heavily undervaluing the rams and saints. generally, the worst divisions were from the central and afcw. I am not refuting how tough the nfce was at the time, only that the 49ers had a cakewalk- which is untrue. don't be the Least_Cerebral person in the room. Edited February 7, 2023 by Bier Meister 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Bier Meister said: Atlanta was the suck for a long time. i am reviewing divisions from 81-00. you are heavily undervaluing the rams and saints. generally, the worst divisions were from the central and afcw. I am not refuting how tough the nfce was at the time, only that the 49ers had a cakewalk- which is untrue. don't be the Least Cerebral person in the room. I think its a fair comparison to the Pats. You (the pats) had a few years were the Jets piped up and a few of the teams took themselves off of the matt, but if you were a great team , which the niners were , you just swatted those weaker teams aside most years . They were of Little Concern Edited February 7, 2023 by whomper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 32 minutes ago, whomper said: Montana had that advantage as well. NFC east were beating the crap out of each other and the Niners had a cakewalk every year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajncajn Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, whomper said: As formidable as LT, The Hogs etc ?? The saints fans had bags over their heads for a decade . Falcons were mediocre at best . Montana didnt get his uniform dirty until the playoffs Dude, now you're just trolling me. The Dome Patrol defense (late 80s - early 90s) was one of the greatest of all time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whomper Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, rajncajn said: ( im not embarrased , I am imitating a saints fan from that era ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
League_Champion Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Bier Meister said: don't be the Least_Cerebral person in the room. Still butt hurt?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bier Meister Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, League_Champion said: Still butt hurt?? about what? I have nothing to be butt hurt about. You, on the other hand, should be embarrassed about many of your stances and behavior on the board. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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