IT'S OVER - JOE BIDEN IS PRESIDENT ELECT!!

[League_Champion]

6 hours ago, Bobby Brown said:

It seems rather clear this isn't going the way Putin envisioned.  I think maybe he wanted to strong arm his way into Ukraine for negotiation purposes.  Still not convinced he was looking at long term occupation.  Now he may be worried about playing the fool.

 

Do you think he thought that the Ukrainian.people would welcome Russian forces? That's what it seems like. He didn't even try to take out Ukrainian defense systems prior to the land invasion. 

[stevegrab]

Yesterday I was hearing some reports that it is possible the Russian intel told Putin that they would be welcomed in Ukraine, he believed and planned for a very short (a few days) war and immediate surrender. 

 

Russians are now going after more civilian targets, looking to slaughter many innocent people in order to force Ukraine to give up. Government offices which are not military bases or have military equipment have been targeted(or hit by poor accuracy), not to mention apartment buildings and other places. I guess hospitals are next, they'd hit the schools but many children in urban areas have left.

 

Also read that Russians are willing to meet again and talk piece, but no real details and it seems prior negotiations were fruitless. Ukraine wants Russians forced removed during the process, while Russians want Ukraine unconditional surrender or other unreasonable terms. 

 

The number of refugees crossing into western neighbors is growing rapidly, and will hit one million in a few days. That's about 2% of the Ukraine population. 

 

The big concern we (entire world, including Russians) should all have is Putin being completely unhinged and deciding to launch nukes. He and his foreign minister Lavrov continue to make threats about nuclear war, how a "World War III will be a nuclear war". 

[League_Champion]

54 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

Yesterday I was hearing some reports that it is possible the Russian intel told Putin that they would be welcomed in Ukraine, he believed and planned for a very short (a few days) war and immediate surrender.

 

If you don't stop it now then what? We'll be dealing with Russia forever. They'll keep going, who's next? 

[League_Champion]

13 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

If you do try to stop Russia now, do you think it'll lead to a full out wwiii? 

 

 

Do we deal with it now or later? I'd rather deal with it now, it won't get easier. 

[Bobby Brown]

Meh.

 

This insinuation that Russia becomes some super power with Ukraine and must be stopped at all costs is oversimplified.  They already lost Ukraine once and the NATO expansion has Russia rightfully worried.  If Mexico and Canada joined the Warsaw Pact we wouldn't be sitting on our hands either.  

While I hope Ukraine prevails, this really isn't our problem and is a much bigger issue to Russia's security than anything else.  This effort is clearly stretching their resources and capabilities thus far.  

[League_Champion]

19 minutes ago, Bobby Brown said:

Meh.

 

This insinuation that Russia becomes some super power with Ukraine and must be stopped at all costs is oversimplified.  They already lost Ukraine once and the NATO expansion has Russia rightfully worried.  If Mexico and Canada joined the Warsaw Pact we wouldn't be sitting on our hands either.  

While I hope Ukraine prevails, this really isn't our problem and is a much bigger issue to Russia's security than anything else.  This effort is clearly stretching their resources and capabilities thus far.  

 

Are we safe assuming that he stops at Ukraine? 

[stevegrab]

4 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

If you don't stop it now then what? We'll be dealing with Russia forever. They'll keep going, who's next? 

 

Who is next?  Well who is left near the Russian borders that are not in NATO. Finland, Sweden, Moldova?  Putin has already made some threats about Finland and Sweden. I doubt he's going into Iran, Iraq or others that are more of a middle eastern style. And most of the rest of the area is going to anger China which he won't want.  

 

There is no way they attack a NATO nation, that will result in NATO forces stepping into to defend them. His fear of NATO and the west is why he is attacking Ukraine.

 

 

[stevegrab]

1 hour ago, Bobby Brown said:

Meh.

 

This insinuation that Russia becomes some super power with Ukraine and must be stopped at all costs is oversimplified.  They already lost Ukraine once and the NATO expansion has Russia rightfully worried.  If Mexico and Canada joined the Warsaw Pact we wouldn't be sitting on our hands either.  

While I hope Ukraine prevails, this really isn't our problem and is a much bigger issue to Russia's security than anything else.  This effort is clearly stretching their resources and capabilities thus far.  

 

The Warsaw Pact was dissolved 3 decades ago. Now if Mexico suddenly became a Russian satellite state then sure USA isn't going to sit still. But that's pretty different from joining NATO, being aligned more with Western Europe etc. 

 

The Warsaw pact was basically Soviet Union and all their puppet commie governments joining together, again that's very different from NATO. 

[League_Champion]

32 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

 

Who is next?  Well who is left near the Russian borders that are not in NATO. Finland, Sweden, Moldova?  Putin has already made some threats about Finland and Sweden. I doubt he's going into Iran, Iraq or others that are more of a middle eastern style. And most of the rest of the area is going to anger China which he won't want.  

 

There is no way they attack a NATO nation, that will result in NATO forces stepping into to defend them. His fear of NATO and the west is why he is attacking Ukraine.

 

 

 

They already took over our bases in Afghanistan and have been in Iraq since we left. So what's your logic? Just let him pillage and wipe Ukraine off the map? How is that ok, because they aren't NATO? 

[Bobby Brown]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

 

The Warsaw Pact was dissolved 3 decades ago.

Yes I know. I was using that as an analogy. 

[stevegrab]

26 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

You and i agree about a lot, but i truly believe not letting Russia have Ukraine leads to WWIII and possibly nukes

As i mentioned before only a third of citizens want to remain independent. The rest either don't care or want Russia.

This is not a fight i think had value for us.

 

I know you're ignoring me, but can you provide a source for your numbers on Ukraine citizens wishes regarding independence. If only one third want independence I'd expect a lot less support to fight the Russian invasion. 

 

Maybe the people in Crimea or those in far eastern Ukraine that have been trying to break off feel that way. (Those in east don't want to be independent, they want to be Russian puppets like Belarus.) 

 

 

[League_Champion]

15 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

You and i agree about a lot, but i truly believe not letting Russia have Ukraine leads to WWIII and possibly nukes

As i mentioned before only a third of citizens want to remain independent. The rest either don't care or want Russia.

This is not a fight i think had value for us.

 

Russia will NOT use nukes. For every nuke they have, we have 10 more aimed right at them with better delivery mechanisms and they know it. Russia is now sending in reserve units, the army is stretched thin. I'm not saying that it's going to happen but don't be shocked if we step in real soon, this would be the time. We'd have the majority of their military pinned down with their backs to the wall and nowhere to go. We have enough firepower there right now to squash this and I promise you its being discussed. We recently recommissioned our Afghanistan fleets and have sent them to Poland, mostly Germany over the last Month. My buddy who's stationed in Germany thinks something is coming. I'd rather we stay out but International pressure is mounting. 

[stevegrab]

14 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

 

Russia will NOT use nukes. For every nuke they have, we have 10 more aimed right at them with better delivery mechanisms and they know it. Russia is now sending in reserve units, the army is stretched thin. I'm not saying that it's going to happen but don't be shocked if we step in real soon, this would be the time. We'd have the majority of their military pinned down with their backs to the wall and nowhere to go. We have enough firepower there right now to squash this and I promise you its being discussed. We recently recommissioned our Afghanistan fleets and have sent them to Poland, mostly Germany over the last Month. My buddy who's stationed in Germany thinks something is coming. I'd rather we stay out but International pressure is mounting. 

 

Care to share your source for that claim. Not long ago the two sides were pretty equal but more recent estimates say that Russia has more, maybe by as much as 50-75% higher. Maybe you are referring to those ready and able to be launched.

 

Still, I don't think it matters who has more or has better delivery, if one side launches the other follows, and the world is doomed. 

[League_Champion]

29 minutes ago, stevegrab said:

, I don't think it matters who has more or has better delivery, if one side launches the other follows, and the world is doomed. 

 

That's the point Steven. What's the difference if we're all dead? We have nukes, they have nukes. Because the guy has nukes he can do whatever he wants? 

[League_Champion]

And apparently China asked Russia to hold off invading Ukraine until after the Olympics.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-officials-say-china-asked-russia-delay-ukraine-war-until-after-beijing-2022-03-02/

[stevegrab]

16 hours ago, League_Champion said:

 

That's the point Steven. What's the difference if we're all dead? We have nukes, they have nukes. Because the guy has nukes he can do whatever he wants? 

 

So you have no source for your claim that the US had 10-1 ratio of nukes over Russia? I noticed you removed that part of my post when quoting me, clearly you didn't want to answer. 

 

Yes it doesn't matter who has more, or how many thousands they all have, so why were you bragging about our supposed superiority. Like that's going to scare Putin, he'd rather destroy the planet than admit he was wrong. 

 

As for giving Putin whatever he wants, who is doing that? 

 

Can you explain clearly what you think US and Europeans should do?  And then actually stand by that for more than a few minutes. 

 

[League_Champion]

There are some great live streams from Ukraine. Russia has really turned it up. There's a raging battle for the nuclear power plant, Russia had seized control of it earlier. 

 

[Big John]

11 minutes ago, League_Champion said:

There are some great live streams from Ukraine. Russia has really turned it up. There's a raging battle for the nuclear power plant, Russia had seized control of it earlier. 

 

There is a fire at the nuclear plant.

[League_Champion]

8 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

I think the admin building, not the actual nuke

 

Correct. They are reporting slightly elevated radiation levels at the plant. They are afraid the the spent fuel cells were hit. I'm watching a live stream right now, there's a big fire fight right now. 

[League_Champion]

9 hours ago, LordOpie said:

Isn't spent fuel typically stored underground in concrete tanks?

 

Yup, but then again it's Ukraine. 

[League_Champion]

10 hours ago, LordOpie said:

Isn't spent fuel typically stored underground in concrete tanks?

 

 

"They will be trying to mine the nuclear power plant and blackmail the whole of Europe," Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant (ZNPP) employees wrote in the message early Friday morning as Russian troops attacked the plant, setting it on fire. Misha Gannytskyi, director general of the Ukrainian Independent Information Agency of News (UNIAN), provided Fox News this translation early Friday morning.

[League_Champion]

16 minutes ago, LordOpie said:

I read stuff like this, but a nuke power plant can't be set on fire, can it?

Isn't the nuke walls immune to fire? How does it contain the crazy hot fuel if it can be set in fire?

Sounds like Ukraine propaganda to get NATO involved?

 

"If it blows up, it will be 10 times larger than Chernobyl!” Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba warned in a statement, referencing the 1986 Ukraine nuclear disaster that is considered the worst in world history.

IAEA Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said Russia maintains control of nuclear plants in Zaporizhzhia and Chernobyl following the Friday attack.

[stevegrab]

FYI 

 

Fire at a nuke plant could shut down critical systems need to keep the nuclear material cool. 

 

Doesn't mean its all propaganda, but then some seem to believe Russian media more than Ukraine or western sources. But hey if you watch Fox News they lead you in that direction so how awesome is that. 

Edited March 4, 2022 by stevegrab

[League_Champion]

1 hour ago, stevegrab said:

FYI 

 

Fire at a nuke plant could shut down critical systems need to keep the nuclear material cool. 

 

Doesn't mean its all propaganda, but then some seem to believe Russian media more than Ukraine or western sources. But hey if you watch Fox News they lead you in that direction so how awesome is that. 

 

Dumb ass, are you denying that there was a fire there? There's a friggin war on the Powerplant's doorstep, anything can happen.

[League_Champion]

9 hours ago, LordOpie said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1499883863555858444

Man you can tell some people really love getting (the really bad word)ed in the ass

 

Our sacrifices are nothing compared to what those folks are going through. Americans cry when they lose their internet for a minute or if there's a line at Starbucks. Would you flee or would you fight? There's definitely a few in here that would run like little biatches.